What is it?

[Jadeslade]

Where does Zen type thinking (or not thinking, I'm not even sure of that) fall in this arena, if at all ???

Zen is meditation to achieve enlightenment. So you could be the bullet. In a sitting position. However, being a typical American guy I just think be cool. Kind of like sliding a rattlesnake back into the woods. BE is the Master. It can take a while-years- to understand this and your understanding will change as you learn more. There are several other Masters. They don't usually post, but you can get things from them time to time if you go to important matches and wait and watch and ask. The sport of shooting is a game, but it has applications that can be real.

[Desert Fox]

I had a recommendation to start a Zen forum, so here it is. Post your favorite sayings, stories, or whatever...

Just what is "Zen"? I don't know.

The word Zen translates as meditation. So I asked Bohdidharma, and this is what he said:

"Buddha is Sanskrit for what you call AWARE, MIRACULOUSLY AWARE. Responding, perceiving, arching your brows, blinking your eyes, moving your hands and feet, it's all your miraculously aware nature. And this nature is the mind. And the mind is the Buddha. And the Buddha is the path. And the path is Zen. But the word Zen is one that remains a puzzle to both mortals and sages. Seeing your [original, essential] nature is Zen."

be

BE,

I am new to your forum, and I have already learned a ton. One of my favorite quotes is from Sun Tzu "The victorious warrior win then goes to battle; the defeated warrior goes to battle and seeks to win".

I have been in the Marine Corps for 22 years and and have been a marksmanship instructor for almost the time. I have just recently started shooting compepitively and I love it. I am always looking for ways to improve.

Thanks for all the help and I hope someone can learn from this quote.

Scott

[benos]

Thanks Scott.

Yes, that's a good one. Another similar one I like - (paraphrasing, and can't remember the source) The winner is decided in the mind of the opponents before the fight begins.

I remember the first time I heard that I was like - Whoa! That's true, and deep.

be

[AriM]

Zen, is when you no longer have to ask.....

[benos]

Zen, is when you no longer have to ask.....

Right.

Why is a lie.

be

[Hartmann]

The sport of shooting is a game, but it has applications that can be real.

Profoundly true. I am rediscovering now the lessons of Zen I had learned while studying martial arts years ago.

[AriM]

Zen, is when you no longer have to ask.....

Right.

Why is a lie.

be

indeed....it is possible that Zen is not a universal state, only a state in which one is comfortable knowing that he does not know, and accepts this....why does gravity pull things down? that is debatable on MANY levels....yet the fact remains....I am going to quote Popeye/The God of Abraham...."I yam what I yam"

[tpcdvc]

After reading most of this thread, I think I will just continue to shoot A's as fast as I can trying to learn along the way. If that is zen then so be it.

[Singlestack]

After reading most of this thread, I think I will just continue to shoot A's as fast as I can trying to learn along the way. If that is zen then so be it.

Did you start at the beginning?

[benos]

After reading most of this thread, I think I will just continue to shoot A's as fast as I can trying to learn along the way. If that is zen then so be it.

Without trying, that's spot on.

be

[AEuropa]

All of this can be applied to shooting IPSC.  Probably a part of why Mr. Enos is such a success.  If you are expecting to run a stage a certain way and something goes awry, those expectations will cause you more problems than you might otherwise have experienced.  If you shot the stage as "an infinite series of immediate moments" nothing ahead or behind the current action would be affecting you.  By being totally in tune with the most immediate of moments you will find the actual flow of events turn out far better than the preconceived and planned event you might have imagined.

This may get answered later in the thread, but I don't want to forget what question I want to ask...see, I'm living in the *now*...kinda.

Anywho, so how does this mesh with making a plan before going through a COF? When I was at my first match 2 weeks ago, on the final stage, I forgot to shoot a popper during my first string of shots, so for the rest of the stage my round count (from my plan) was off and I twice racked the slide only to send a round flying into the dirt. This was by far my worst stage, accuracy wise, as well with 4 mikes (the other two stages were 1 and 0) and several Ds (only 1 D in the previous two stages); I wasn't able to focus on the moment because I was too busy making mistakes.

This thread makes my head hurt. Like SS, I am a very literal thinker but I have always been intrigued by the concept of Zen (although I have never called it that before). I am a big fan of Dan Millman's Peaceful Warrior series of books. I guess I should go ahead and order BE's book.

Ok, back to reading...

- Alex

[benos]

Alex,

The trick lies in learning when it is best to think, and when it is best not to think. And then applying either thinking or silent observation in every appropriate circimstance.

Thinking is not bad, it's just not always the best state of mind for the job at hand. Of course you must think when solving a problem, like when planning how you will shoot a COF. But for optimum performance, at the buzzer, thinking must be replaced by a calm, composed, observing state of mind. A single thought while shooting a COF can turn the whole stage to shit.

You can train yourself to be more attentive. This Thread is on that topic.

be

[AEuropa]

Brian,

Thank you for the thread. Enlightening. I have already started...still at zero mistakes! (Did I mention that I have only been going for about 15 seconds?)

I'm going to pass on the Attention Game to a co-worker. She's not into guns, but I'm pretty sure it will help her immensely.

- Alex

[benos]

Thanks, and you're welome Alex. I've committed to making the Error Game a way of life, for the rest of my life. It's changing my life daily in a good way.

be

[AEuropa]

"Zen is not a philosophy, it is poetry. It does not propose, it simply persuades. It does not argue, it simply sings its own song." - Osho

OK, to get us back on track:

"Zen is mind-less activity, that is, Mind-ful activity, and it may often be advisable to emphasize the mind, and say, Take care of the thoughts and the actions will take care of themselves." - R.H. Blyth

- Alex

[benos]

Stop the sketch, it's gotten silly!

If your posts are missing, it's because I cleaned the off-topic squabbling out of the thread.

be

[AEuropa]

"We are free to tell the mountain that it is too high, the road that it winds too much and the ocean that it is too wet." - Unknown

So the Zen master steps up to the hot dog cart and says: "Make me one with everything."

The hot dog vendor fixes a hot dog and hands it to the Zen master, who pays with a $20 bill. The hot dog vendor puts the bill in the cash drawer and closes the drawer.

"Where’s my change?" asks the Zen master. And the hot dog vendor responds: "Change must come from within."

- Alex

Edited October 12, 2010 by AEuropa

[johnbh]

I was shooting in an archery tornament, I had 30 people in my class C I shot BowHunter style. Compound fingers no sights. The first day of the shoot I was down by 100 points. I almost said forget this, I'm going home. Feeling there were sandbaggers shooting. The next day I was hitting every thing not really aware of my suroundings. Not really knowing I was really on. My partner I had been shooting with everyday, he was state champion in his class. He told me I was in my zone,he never spoke to me this day, he realized this. I ended up winnig my class and scoring higher than the upper B class.

[benos]

I was shooting in an archery tornament, I had 30 people in my class C I shot BowHunter style. Compound fingers no sights. The first day of the shoot I was down by 100 points. I almost said forget this, I'm going home. Feeling there were sandbaggers shooting. The next day I was hitting every thing not really aware of my suroundings. Not really knowing I was really on. My partner I had been shooting with everyday, he was state champion in his class. He told me I was in my zone,he never spoke to me this day, he realized this. I ended up winnig my class and scoring higher than the upper B class.

Nice. Maybe you stopped caring?

[stuart1]

If Zen is seeing one's Buddha Nature, who then is it that is doing the seeing? (Dennis scrathes his belly and thinks, "Maybe there are 16 extra words in that sentance). Dennis

[benos]

If Zen is seeing one's Buddha Nature, who then is it that is doing the seeing?

It's never been said.

If Zen is seeing one's Buddha Nature, who then is it that is doing the seeing? (Dennis scrathes his belly and thinks, "Maybe there are 16 extra words in that sentance). Dennis

[johnbh]

I believe that is true

[Shawn.L]

"talking about Zen is like dancing about architecture"

I know it when I remember it, but then Im not knowing it at all

[Mad Scientist]

After reading this entire thread I must say that this is very deep. I have been strugiling after a two year layoff . Shooting has taken a back seat. I recently started back and my performances have been dismal at best some days and spectacular on others. I find myself talking thru the stages

all the while maknig huge mental errors.I now have a small understanding of why.So for fun i set up some steel challenge stages in my basement for my air soft rig. At first i shot as normal pushing as hard as I could . The results were the same as my last match within a few tenths. Then I figured why not try something diferent . I cleared my mind set the timmer and closed my eyes .at the beep I found that my eyes had opened and I was on the first target and was alredy indexing thru the sequence of smoke and hope. I never made any decisions to fire and saw every shot as they happened . it was almost like looking thru a fog seeing a lightning bug trace across the targets lighting up at the shot.The end result was @ 50% decress in time from 2.6 to 1.44 I cannot believe the diference .I believe The shooting happened at the subconsius level.I will continue to work on the mental disconect aspect of my game. I now truly belive that is what has been missing. Thank you Brian for sharing your insight to top level performance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Respectfully John

Edited June 13, 2011 by Mad Scientist

[Mad Scientist]

Reflecting about the last few weeks I wonder how to transfer the practice successes to match reality. I know that I put exstreem pressure on myself to performe. I know that the answer lives inside me . I know I need to take the presure off to perform well. That is my quest .Relax the mind and let the body perform.Its easy to disconect when no one is watching .So the answer to my own question is evident dont notice everyone else . Treat the match as a relaxed practice. Thinkers think about doing,performers just do it and dont think about it ??????????????