Scoring Methods

[Vlad]

As I was doing the scores for last weekends match I notice one of the odd "features" of the hit factor and max stage points that USPSA uses and it got me thinking about scoring systems. The trigger for this was that as I was typing in the scores I looked at the relative standings for two shooters. After entering the scores for the first squad for all 7 stages Shooter 1 was leading Shooter 2 by about 3 match points, both having shot the match on the same squad. After entering the rest of the 7 squads, Shooter 2 was leading Shooter 1 by about 3.5 match points.

Now, I understand why that happens. I get the math of it. However it seems odd to me that our scoring system changes the relative finishing positions of two shooters depending on the performance of a third (or fourth, or fifth .. ). I don't even know that it is a bad thing, as the the current system basically builds in some measure of "skill weight" by saying some stages required more control of certain skills then others and the balance of those skills across multiple stages may not be fully represented by only two shooters.

Anyway .. I was wondering if anyone can thing of a system that would work for USPSA/IPSC scoring and resolve this kind of flip, without changing the flavor of the game. We could use time plus, but that changes the balance of DVC away from the current one, and starts to break down on very long or very short stages. We couldn't use raw HF because that would completely screw with current "worth" of short stages vs long stages in final match standings, course design would become a much more complex issue. There is the idea of giving the same number of match points to each stage which may balance out the short vs long issue, but it retains the problem of switching finishing order.

The only mad thing I could think of was having a hybrid HF/time+ scoring system where the HF for a stage would determine the time value of dropped points, but the math of that would be kinda nuts and without cranking some numbers through it I'm not even sure that it wouldn't introduce its own issue. And that is even assuming you would have a good way of determing what HF to use for each stage.

I'm not advocating we change the scoring system. I'm not trying to start a new rules discussion. I'm just curious if people know of a scoring system that would work better then what we have now, which isn't all that bad.

PS: in the interest of full disclosure I was Shooter 1 who was leading Shooter 2, and then I wasn't. I'm not looking to find a way to raise my scores here, Shooter 2 really is a better shooter then I am, I just happened to notice it and it made me think.

Edited October 24, 2006 by Vlad

[Flexmoney]

I think our scoring is the best out there. Weighted by the amount of shooting per stage (stage points) and also by "shooting on the curve"...based on the hhf of the best shooter of the stage. The only downside, that I see, is that it's a bit hard to figure out at first.

[richardschennberg]

The current hit factor/percentage system is extremely accurate for the top 2 or 3 shooters in a match. For shooters not in contention for a stage win, it gives more weight to stages when you finish closer to the stage winner. Time + scoring penalizes trashed stages much more heavily. Although more complicated, the way IPSC and USPSA score is about as fair as you can be when speed, accuracy, and power are in play.

[AikiDale]

Okay, for the math challenged English majors out here how does the position of shooter 2 overtake the position of shooter 1 when you get the scores for shooter 3?

[L9X25]

Okay, for the math challenged English majors out here how does the position of shooter 2 overtake the position of shooter 1 when you get the scores for shooter 3?

Let's say that Shooter 1 spanked Shooter 2 on the speed shoot and gained 30 match points on him in the process. That 30 points allows him to have a 5 point lead overall for the match. Shooter 3 then comes around and spanks them both handily on the speed shoot and reduces Shooter 1's score from 100% to 50%. Now the amount of points that Shooter gained over Shooter 2 could only be 15 and Shooter 1 ends up losing the match, that he was previously winning, because of Shooter 3's score.

Edited October 31, 2006 by L9X25