bountyhunter Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 I know we don't have to win all the time, but that beating was too painful to watch. We used to be the world's undisputed leader in golf..... now we have maybe five of the top 20 world ranked. That competition was just a flat-out stomping..... it was never a match from the start. Reminded me of the old Mike Tyson fights back when he was in his prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 we don;t have that killer instinct like we used to have...they make tooooooo much money even if they don't win the tourney..takes the edge off.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 we get beat in almost every sport now. we rule football, but no one else plays the game. heck, we can't even win a pistol match. what's left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 we get beat in almost every sport now. we rule football, but no one else plays the game. heck, we can't even win a pistol match. what's left? Well, we could practice, get better, and care about the outcome enough to practice some more - the usual way of eventually winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 The US Team should have fielded and all-amateur group. They would have been fired up and taken more chances. My first Ryder cup as an American and we lose it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 It is all about big money..when the big money gets in there, we fold like a cheap suit...loose focus and intensity...why should I try to be worlds best if I make 12.6 million bucks anyway...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Well ... A lot of young people have been busy joining the military for the last 5 years or so. In record numbers. If I'm not mistaken viewership of televised spoting events is also down. As a whole I think we are seeing a decline in interestest the average American has for spectator sports, or international sporting competition in general. That has to have an effect on the performances of the participants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 The decline you are seeing is not in sports, but in actively participating in sports...the kids today would rather play sports with an Xbox or Playstation than get out and really do it..that is why they are dumb, overweight and bored.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Pro,s aside, let,s see do we support our athleats?? Um NO! At the ESC 2006 we of the American Standard team got jack from anyone! We even asked USPSA to help with team shirts and all we got was a laugh from them. We paid it all, air fare entry room board etc. Now let's look at the Russian team, full factory support full ride to the match, etc. Italy full ride, shotguns, and all the ammo to practice with. Even the British team had entries paid for the team guys. What help do the other sports get?? U.S. Ski team?? A few donations and that is it, and then all the "sports" guys whine that we get beat at everything. Well guess what, if the guys and gals had more support maybe they would do better and untill we start giving some of that support amybe we ought not whine about how we "get beat" at everything. I am reminded of Kiplings poem Tommy, it really catches the U.S. feeling twards the athleat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 Well.... first off, nobody will ever have to take up a collection to support pro golf or pro golfers. It is so filthy rich it is swimming in money. The Ryder cup is a PRO event, which means we (and they) filed the best they have to offer. A while back, we were a lot better....... now, we basically get hammered every two years. It makes me wonder..... if the "Tiger Woods dominance" is because he is the tallest midget in a land of dwarfs, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Golf, like any other world event (unlike soccer) seems to cycle around. Granted the US has had the upper hand in golf for a long time, but there are some salty European players out there. I'm not sure the US guys are getting worse, I think they are just getting beaten, well. Sergio Garcia has pulled some shots out that have been incredible. Phil never plays real well at these type of events, and even though I went to high-school with him and still consider him a friend, he unfortunately should not be on the team. He has a real bad habit of choking under pressure and Mr. Lehmen needs to recognize these things when selecting the team (I know what would happen if no. 3 in the world didn't make it, but....) As far as shooting sports go, I learned shooting international skeet, no one will support you except your peers. Maybe we need to hold some type of fund raiser at the big 3-gun matches for the US team to go. I sure enough would pitch $20 a ticket to try to win a gun in a raffle. If 200 folks buy just one ticket for a $600 Glock, that's a $3400 net for the team. Do that at SMM3G and RM3G at a minimum, and you are well on your way. I am for sure that ~$7,000 would have helped out alot. Maybe even one of our Dealers could hold an online auction like that. Just an idea.. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 It is all about big money..when the big money gets in there, we fold like a cheap suit...loose focus and intensity...why should I try to be worlds best if I make 12.6 million bucks anyway...? Money may be a factor but you do realize that many of the European Ryder Cup members play a significant amount of their golf schedule out the PGA tour for the same purses? Also, could a cogent argument be made that any top player is where he/she is because they don't like to lose, $ notwithstanding? I think it's more of the structural differences between the tours. As was mentioned in the telecast, the european tour players are a much closer-knit group than the US tour players. Go to a European venue and they have one hotel where all the players stay because there is only one hotel in town. They eat, sleep, drink, and play golf together. This is definitely not the case here. The top US players are the worlds best individual players as a whole as the PGA tour fields the highest level of talent bar none. We just aren't the best team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 (edited) bountyhunter In the land of the blind, the one eyed man can be king....true enough...but there is a huge difference in match play vs medal play..the Ryder Cup is match play, the strategy is very different and the US pros only have the opportunity to play match play twice a year, so their match play skills are not well honed... The manner in which the Ryder Cup is conducted, is that it is a series of one day matches....not a 4 day continuous event in which the lowest total strokes wins...NO SIR, it is a one day take no prisoners, win at any cost, match..psych your opponent out any way you can, game the match anyway you can...we have lost these skills due to not using them and because of the vast amounts of money the NON winners get on the pro tour...again there is NO incentive. Everything the US pros do is geared to THEM individually, not as a team....the Europeans are much more team oriented due to many reasons, the many countries they come from..the different cultural effects each bring to their tour, the feeling of the little against the BIG BAD US, all are valid reasons why they look forward to playing this event...we in the US, do not look forward to it..it is a waste of time for most of the guys playing even if it is for country...they make no $$$$ from it and infact loose the opportunity to possibly win another tourney or two in the later part of the year... The Europeans have had an us against them attitude for lots of years but did not lhave the talent...they NOW have the talent and still have that attitude...we consider it a waste of time and effort...we have the talent, but are put off balance by the interntional aspects of the event....not many of the pga pros play many events out of the US...lots of the Europeans play all over the globe..they are not put off by any part of the Ryder cup.. If we are to win again, our attitude needs to change and the manner in which we approach the event needs to change..for them , they play toward it for two yrs...we don't even care who is on the tean till two months before..no wonder they win.. Kind of like the Americas Cup race....when we lost the desire to win at any cost and each time, we did loose...same with this...when lost, the momentum is tough to get back..just ask Mickelson and the rest of the US players, except Verplank (and the reason he is good is that he is aware of the struggle needed to play on the team and has struggled his whole golf career).... Jay Townsend might have some words of wisdom, but this is my .02.. Mike Pinto: the team captain has no choice of who makes the first 10 slots of the team...if they make the points, they are on the team...Mickelson made the team...he had to play him..maybe not as much as he did, but he had to play him.. Edited September 25, 2006 by tightloop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 The question is .. does it matter? Is American pride really hurt by it? I think if you ask 10 Americans, 9 of them won't even know what the Ryder cup is, and more then half of the rest won't give a rats behind who wins it. Same with basketball, which seems to have lost its glamor with some of the greats leaving the game. How many people even noticed that team USA has been loosing lately? I think overall Americans can be the best at ANYTHING they want to be best at, but after some time they stop giving a damn about the subject. How many times must Lance win the Tour? How many times must Tiger win? How many world shoots does TGO have to win? How many flags do we need to plant on the Moon? How many Nobel prizes? At some point winning becomes routine, interest wanes, winning stops being important, and the it stops all together. I bet we could field the best chariot racing team on Earth, but why? At then end, winning is only important the guy winning, and no matter how loud the cheer squad gets, the team doesn't score if they don't care and if the spectators have moved on to different entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Vlad do you reckon that is what is wrong witht the Houston Texans...they just don't care anymore...LOL Man, the QB has been sacked so often he looks like a piece of Astroturf...and our multumillion dollar draft pick has yet to have a sack...he was outtackled over 5 to l by the MLB in the last game..that is lame for a guy who is guarenteed to make 27 million bucks in the next year.. I think I could get enthused for about 1/27th of that money.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 Mike Pinto:the team captain has no choice of who makes the first 10 slots of the team...if they make the points, they are on the team...Mickelson made the team...he had to play him..maybe not as much as he did, but he had to play him.. Good point.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted September 25, 2006 Author Share Posted September 25, 2006 bountyhunterIn the land of the blind, the one eyed man can be king....true enough...but there is a huge difference in match play vs medal play..the Ryder Cup is match play, the strategy is very different and the US pros only have the opportunity to play match play twice a year, so their match play skills are not well honed... True enough. And the type of swing most US golfers cultivate is poorly suited to match play.... ie, focused on overwhelming power and distance. The best match players have swings with the fewest "moving parts" because they hold together the best under pressure. They also don't overswing as much. In stroke play, the big boomers like Woods and Michelson can launch a couple or three in the water and still come back and birdie the par fives and end up with a round of 68. In match play, errant shots usually cost you a hole and it doesn't matter whether you win or lose a hole by one stroke or ten....counts the same. I've noticed the US brand of golf is not well suited for Ryder cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted September 25, 2006 Share Posted September 25, 2006 There was an article in one of the national golf mags recently which addressed the type of golf being played by the US now days...they called it Bomb & Gouge...hit as far as you can with the Big Dawg then gouge it to the green with a 9 iron or wedge...two putts and you have par or wedge it close and make birdie..the thinking is that they can get it as close with a wedge from the rough at 120 yds from the pin as they can with a 6 iron being 170 yds in the fairway....it works over here, but maybe not over there...need to get Jay's commentary on this...bet he has some good insight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted September 26, 2006 Share Posted September 26, 2006 do you reckon that is what is wrong witht the Houston Texans...they just don't care anymore...LOL Depends .. what game do you think they are playing? that is lame for a guy who is guarenteed to make 27 million bucks in the next year..I think I could get enthused for about 1/27th of that money.. Oh wait .. you already figure out what the game he is playing really is. I'd say he's winning at it. It just happened to not be football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mousekiller Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 True enough. And the type of swing most US golfers cultivate is poorly suited to match play.... ie, focused on overwhelming power and distance. The best match players have swings with the fewest "moving parts" because they hold together the best under pressure. They also don't overswing as much.I've noticed the US brand of golf is not well suited for Ryder cup. Personally i think that's so much drivel.. common.. your talking about the top golfers in the WORLD... These guys play under pressure EVERY week.. or most every week.. TW is the BEST golfer in the world and your saying his swing isn't suited to match play? he won how many Amature titles in a row? all match play, granted his swing has changed, and GEE he only has won what 6 PGA tour events in a row! Vlads correct also, most folks could care less. and frankly i gave up proffessional sports years ago, most are a bunch of overpaid thugs... (golfers not included) although they are WAY overpaid also.. I think the biggest downfall for the Americans is the "team" thing.. i really don't think there is a desire there cause golf is an "indvidual" thing not a team thing to them.. specially at the PGA tour level.. i also deep down think those guys are more interested in the "who what where when" they will be the next week, cause that puts food on the table for them.. Frankly it's like the Olympics, the Olympics were for the top "amature" athletes of the world, now what do we have? bunch of proffessionals every time.. does it "really" matter to them if they do good or not? I say we take the top Nike tour players and send them.. least they would have the "desire" to do well.. Jeff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 True enough. And the type of swing most US golfers cultivate is poorly suited to match play.... ie, focused on overwhelming power and distance. The best match players have swings with the fewest "moving parts" because they hold together the best under pressure. They also don't overswing as much. I've noticed the US brand of golf is not well suited for Ryder cup. Personally i think that's so much drivel.. common.. your talking about the top golfers in the WORLD... These guys play under pressure EVERY week.. or most every week.. TW is the BEST golfer in the world and your saying his swing isn't suited to match play? he won how many Amature titles in a row? Whatever. The pros all say the same thing: Ryder cup pressure is orders of magnitude higher than PGA events, even the majors. When you blow a tournament, you only let yourself down and there's another one next week. Blow the cup, and you let the country down and you have to wait two years to get it back. I never said Tiger Woods wasn't a great golfer, but considering his ability, he has sucked in Ryder Cup. Whatever he did in match play as an ametuer isn't helping him now. And there is no question his swing had too many moving parts, and BTW: that's not just my opinion, but his as well. The "overhaul" he did to his game last year was to reduce the amount of rotation and make his swing more bulletproof. He had a habit of over rotating on his backswing and getting the club head "stuck behind the ball" as he came through which meant his hips and hands got head of the swing. Result was an open club face at impact and a drive going 330 yards about 50 yards offline to the right. Watch his backswing now and it does not go beyond horizontal, and he is blowing a lot fewer balls dead right. The point of the thread is that the USA is getting stomped at Ryder Cup by "lesser" players... at least, supposedly lesser players. We ought to be able to do a lot better. There was an article in one of the national golf mags recently which addressed the type of golf being played by the US now days...they called it Bomb & Gouge...hit as far as you can with the Big Dawg then gouge it to the green with a 9 iron or wedge...two putts and you have par or wedge it close and make birdie..the thinking is that they can get it as close with a wedge from the rough at 120 yds from the pin as they can with a 6 iron being 170 yds in the fairway....it works over here, but maybe not over there...need to get Jay's commentary on this...bet he has some good insight... "the thinking is that they can get it as close with a wedge from the rough at 120 yds from the pin as they can with a 6 iron being 170 yds in the fairway" Ahhh.... welcome to the era of square grooves...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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