Which Reduced Spring? Wolf Or Miculek

[cking]

I've put in the Miculek and it was good. However brownells/wolf also has reduced mainspring that comes with three rebound springs.

Do you just end up using the lightest and rest lay around until you launch one and can't find it. Or do you really tune it.

I really like the changed arch angle on the miculek.

Also seems like smith can't decide. I've bought three smiths, two new 625 and nib 1985 model 19 and they all have had different mainsprings?

Don't want to endup with a collection of parts like my 45 box has.

all opinions appreciated

[Carmoney]

...said it before, I'll say it again....unless you're just dying to spend money unnecessarily, adjusting the stock spring (by bending) is an excellent way to achieve the lightest possible mainspring tension that is still 100% reliable.

Even the aftermarket springs need tuned to the gun, to optimize the DA trigger pull.

As for the rebound springs, I'd say use the lightest one that still gives you good snappy rebound.

Edited August 21, 2006 by Carmoney

[10mmdave]

Hey Mike, you've spoke of this modified mainspring thing a lot, (quite a lot actually )

How's about a "How to" instruction list with pic's even

I saw the mainspring mod (not sure if it's like yours) in the last AH but there was no

mention of the "bend" in that.

So come on, share the wealth dude

[Dan Sierpina]

Hey Mike, you've spoke of this modified mainspring thing a lot, (quite a lot actually )

How's about a "How to" instruction list with pic's even

I saw the mainspring mod (not sure if it's like yours) in the last AH but there was no

mention of the "bend" in that.

So come on, share the wealth dude

Dave,

You know that I've mangled a 1911 or two over the years. I think what Mike is referring to, is taking and putting a bit more bend in the mainspring so, you're not overcoming so much weight. The revolvers I had tinkered with, I curved it towards the top of the spring, where the hammer hooks on. I have a PanaVise on the bench, and used that for the purpose, the narrow jaw height allowed me to put some radius on the bend.

That's a take from a bottom feeder shooter

[10mmdave]

Hey Mike, you've spoke of this modified mainspring thing a lot, (quite a lot actually )

How's about a "How to" instruction list with pic's even

I saw the mainspring mod (not sure if it's like yours) in the last AH but there was no

mention of the "bend" in that.

So come on, share the wealth dude

Dave,

You know that I've mangled a 1911 or two over the years. I think what Mike is referring to, is taking and putting a bit more bend in the mainspring so, you're not overcoming so much weight. The revolvers I had tinkered with, I curved it towards the top of the spring, where the hammer hooks on. I have a PanaVise on the bench, and used that for the purpose, the narrow jaw height allowed me to put some radius on the bend.

That's a take from a bottom feeder shooter

Ah yes Dan, I wouldn't say "mangled" though, you did good work IIRC.

And yes, I was refering to the bend that some gun plumbers add and the narrowing of the

mainspring. The location of that bend and an angle would be helpful IMO, (hey ?? somebody

could place there handy dandy super mainspring on a piece of 1/4"x1/4" grid paper and

take a picture of it )

I have 2 or 3 mainsprings from 2 or 3 nameless gunsmiths and there all different to some degree.

And only one has been narrowed. One looks like it was put in a heavy duty vice and bent

about 60 degrees

That, with the backing out of the strain screw was about all I saw for the "trigger job"

[Dan Sierpina]

Dave,

I've seen "trigger jobs" like that too. Oh yeah....with a shortened rebound spring to boot. Didn't even have the decency to put in a proper light rebound. Any way, those that I had altered were done kind of like fitting a slide....by feel. That and trying the old primer pop check No pop....bend it back a bit. I tried narrowing once....didn't like the results at all. Recurving had better overall results to me. As for taking a photo.....I'm not sure where my model 25 is!

[10mmdave]

Dave,

I've seen "trigger jobs" like that too. Oh yeah....with a shortened rebound spring to boot. Didn't even have the decency to put in a proper light rebound. Any way, those that I had altered were done kind of like fitting a slide....by feel. That and trying the old primer pop check No pop....bend it back a bit. I tried narrowing once....didn't like the results at all. Recurving had better overall results to me.

As for taking a photo.....I'm not sure where my model 25 is!

Well find that puppy and bring 'er out for some fun ! !

I'm an army of one here at Harvard now that Johhny's gone back to the flat side

And yesterday....he was playing with ...{shudder,shudder}... a Glock ! !

Edited August 21, 2006 by 10mmdave

[Dan Sierpina]

Then I have to buy more stuff!! I might have an old Safariland holster for a 6" N frame kicking around someplace. But all those moonclip holders, brass that has a headstamp on it (my gov't model shoots all kind of crappy brass)

All in all, I just might try it sometime. But, I've been shooting more shotgun and 3gun/multi gun stuff too. A Benelli just got adopted

[cking]

All this is great but has anybody bought both springs and have an opinion of which they thought was better.

I read about thinning and bending but it hard to make two springs alike that way.

[Agnes]

...said it before, I'll say it again....unless you're just dying to spend money unnecessarily, adjusting the stock spring (by bending) is an excellent way to achieve the lightest possible mainspring tension that is still 100% reliable.

I would also be interested in a bending manual. So please be so kind as to share your wisdom

My revolver was some kind of falsely overtuned and so I'm very careful with such things. Try and error doesn't seem to be a good way for guns.

greetings Agnes

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

All this is great but has anybody bought both springs and have an opinion of which they thought was better.

I read about thinning and bending but it hard to make two springs alike that way.

There is no way anyone can really give you an answer. It kind of depends on your style of shooting.

In one revolver, I have a 13# Wolff spring. In a carry gun, I have a 14#. in my 25-2, I use a .400 serrated trigger and use a 16# recoil spring.

I have an assortment of springs from 11# to 16#. Depending on how the main spring is tuned, the proper rebound spring is chosen.

Regards,

Edited August 21, 2006 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[Waltermitty]

All this is great but has anybody bought both springs and have an opinion of which they thought was better.

I read about thinning and bending but it hard to make two springs alike that way.

I've used both. Each is fine if you plan to drop it in and leave it alone. Use the lowest weight return spring and you'll have the best trigger pull you can order out of a catalog. I couldn't tell any real difference between them.

If you plan to try to drop trigger pull farther, the special features of each product makes the task harder. Each has its' own (albeit different) means of reducing spring force on the hammer. I found that further modifications to those two products pushes you over the edge pretty quick. So for a true "custom" trigger pull it is best (as Mike said) to just use a stock S&W piece as a starting point.

Yep, it's hard to make two springs alike, but in my limited experience it wouldn't do you much good anyway below a certain point. The spring set (hammer & return) must be matched to each other and to the total mass and drag present in whatever gun you are modifying.

I have two "identical" 625's that I have worked down to about 5.5 lbs total trigger pull with very high reliability. What I think I have learned is that below 6.5 lbs, the differences in the guns are more important than the differences in the springs. You just have to bend and snip your way down.

I don't think anyone can tell you how to modify a spring set in a way that will be reliable in *your* particular gun(s). I started out thinking it had to be true, but with two "identical" guns I proved to myself that a set of springs that would run 100% in one gun wouldn't give the same performance in another.

There's a whole lotta cussin' and trial and error behind that statement, so before going any deeper, what is your goal for your trigger pull? The answer will greatly impact the course of action you will have to take to get there.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Well find that puppy and bring 'er out for some fun ! !

I'm an army of one here at Harvard now that Johhny's gone back to the flat side

And yesterday....he was playing with ...{shudder,shudder}... a Glock ! !

After the three gun at Harvard, I hope to be back to revolver so I gan join you and at least give you a laugh.

Dan, if you want to borrow any gear, I am sure we cancome up with enough between us to get you on the range. Now you have no excuse

Edited August 21, 2006 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[Carmoney]

First of all, let me say it puts me in a good mood just to see good ol' Dan Sierpina chiming in on this. When I first started competitive shooting during my brief tenure in New England, Dan was one of the top comp gun builders in the business! Check out that loooooooow USPSA membership number of his!

Second, there's no dark mystery about bending a mainspring. I wouldn't mind taking a picture, but right now everything's all nice and loctited in place, remind me the next time you see me taking one of my revolvers apart (which isn't very often) and I'll snap a picture. But you see, every gun, every spring, every strain screw, seems to be a little different than the last....and the next. A photo would only show you what it looks like on that gun, with that spring.

I'll describe the general process for you. My original bend technique was to take two pairs of vise grips, snap them on the spring near the ends, and bend until a noticeable tweak began to appear in approximately the middle of the spring. Then I got lazy one day and didn't feel like running out to the garage to get the second pair of vise grips, so I just grabbed the big end with one pair and bent the spring against the edge of my workbench. Then one day I discovered that I didn't even need vise grips, I could just grab the goddam thing with my hand and bend it against pretty much any hard surface.

I have never made any effort to place the bend in a certain spot, but the bend tends to appear approximately in the middle of the spring. I've done it enough now I can usually get pretty close with the first bend, but I've never had a problem tweaking it back and forth several times until I get it just right. I'm looking for 5.5 to 6 pounds DA on a competition revolver. That's not "Randy-land," but it's the next closest thing, and I like a little extra reliability margin, frankly.

Some guns seem to have way-long strain screws installed. On these, I will sometimes shorten the strain screw some, and combine that with a bent mainspring. Doing all the adjustment on the strain screw, though, is usually a mistake, as it will often lead to a particular type of binding called "knuckling."

I don't know how to describe it any better than that, other than to say I guess it's more art than science. But it ain't difficult art! And what do you got to lose?? It's a $4 part. Give it a shot. Experiment with it. Put the bend in different places, whatever. Hell, design a jig that will bend the spring "cryoharmoniphonically" and you could probably sell at least 25 of them to guys here on this forum who think it's all about the gimmicks--but only if you charge at least $300 for the jig (nobody would want it if it only cost $30)!

[Bubber]

I bend and tweak the main springs using the frame. The slot where the main spring fits in the grip portion of the frame works well to hold the spring and bend. Bend it until you get the right "feel" on the action then fire two cylinders, if all fire good, to go. If not, take some bend out of it. Remember the main spring will get weaker as it is flexed when in use so after a few thousand rounds you might want to check it again. But I don't touch nuthin on the Randy Gun, I don't even clean it. Don't want the Genie to escape. Later rdd

[10mmdave]

All this is great but has anybody bought both springs and have an opinion of which they thought was better.

I read about thinning and bending but it hard to make two springs alike that way.

I've bought 3 spring kits, Wilsons, Brownells (which is a Wolf's power rib I believe)

and Bang Inc. (Jerry's)

Bang Inc. was the toughest to get right and it's not even in any of my comp guns anymore.

I use the Brownells mostly with the 13lb spring. I trim the strain screw down to where it

works after the usual "back it off till it don't work then turn it in a 1/4 or half a turn"

I'm still figuring out all this trigger job stuff myself, after you read ALL the info on this forum

you can walk away a little dizzy

I think the very first thing you have to do is make sure you have a free wheeling, smooth

trigger assembly before you start working with the springs. If parts are rubbing, if the cylinder

won't spin free, if you feel grittyness in the trigger pull then springs ain't going to help.

I don't know about you cking but I don't have a range out my back door so the bend a little,

grind a little deal don't work too good for me. I think you and I have to get it pretty good at the

bench and then tweak the screw at the range and finish it at home.

I do have one word of caution, if you are using the Brownells Power Rib (and maybe the Wilson ??)

Make sure the hooks don't bind and come into contact with the hammer with your shorter

strain screw, you usually see it when you single action cock the hammer.

So buy a couple spring kits, a few strain screws to trim to different length's (Like Bubber said,

those springs do get weak after awhile, a longer screw works in a pinch at a match) and

have at it. Good luck and the knowledge you'll get will be well worth it.

Save the original mainspring to grind, bend, tweek and generally experiment with and you too

may never have to buy another aftermarket mainspring again

[Dan Sierpina]

Dave,

As for function testing, drill the flash hole out to about .125 on some cases. Prime them.....shoot them in the garage, basement, shop etc. (Basement only if you're home alone) That will tell you if you have enough strength to bust a primer. You need to open the flash hole so the primers don't back out. Personally, I didn't like shortening the strain screw. I'd use a Wolff 12 or 13 lb rebound spring. I didn't go for the lightest action, but a light RELIABLE one.

I might not shoot until the Area 7 3 gun, but, I'll be there shooting on Sunday. I'll toss a Smith mainspring in my bag, so I can show you where I bend them.

[bountyhunter]

...said it before, I'll say it again....unless you're just dying to spend money unnecessarily, adjusting the stock spring (by bending) is an excellent way to achieve the lightest possible mainspring tension that is still 100% reliable.

As for the rebound springs, I'd say use the lightest one that still gives you good snappy rebound.

Print the above words out and frame them. They are possessed of great wisdom.

My original bend technique was to take two pairs of vise grips, snap them on the spring near the ends, and bend until a noticeable tweak began to appear in approximately the middle of the spring.

I do a "mandrel bend" to get a gradual curve. Clamp the bottom in a panavise, and use the handle of a screwdriver to bend the spring over to get a smooth curve. I put the bend about 1/3 of the way down from the top of the spring.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Hell, design a jig that will bend the spring "cryoharmoniphonically" and you could probably sell at least 25 of them to guys here on this forum who think it's all about the gimmicks--but only if you charge at least $300 for the jig (nobody would want it if it only cost $30)!

I already have one. it is part of the fixture I use to straighten extractor rods

Regards,

[10mmdave]

I already have one. it is part of the fixture I use to straighten extractor rods

Regards,

OH! OH! ... I need one of those

(the extractor rod jobby)

[bountyhunter]

Hell, design a jig that will bend the spring "cryoharmoniphonically" and you could probably sell at least 25 of them to guys here on this forum who think it's all about the gimmicks--but only if you charge at least $300 for the jig (nobody would want it if it only cost $30)!

How much do you think I could get for the "two screwdrivers"? One scredriver handle to bend the spring around, the other to press against the top of the spring to apply pressure?

[Carmoney]

Hell, design a jig that will bend the spring "cryoharmoniphonically" and you could probably sell at least 25 of them to guys here on this forum who think it's all about the gimmicks--but only if you charge at least $300 for the jig (nobody would want it if it only cost $30)!

How much do you think I could get for the "two screwdrivers"? One scredriver handle to bend the spring around, the other to press against the top of the spring to apply pressure?

It all depends on what you call them!!

[revchuck]

Golly, how about a smooth-jaw vise, clamp the spring at about the point you want the bend, and put the appropriate box end wrench over the hook end somewhere and use the wrench for a bender?

[Dan Sierpina]

Golly, how about a smooth-jaw vise, clamp the spring at about the point you want the bend, and put the appropriate box end wrench over the hook end somewhere and use the wrench for a bender?

You don't need a wrench for leverage on Smith springs. Simple finger pressure is more than enough.

[cking]

Ok I'm a spring bender now. However I got better results from my Miculek spring than I did from the factory. I also learned about knuckling. I just used one of soft faced jaws on my vice to bend over and used my hands.

So what is the ideal angle of trigger stirrup, lower or more towards butt.

My logic was that I wanted the longest lever on spring so that it has most advantagest pull length. The longest lever resulted from getting the stirrup the greatest distance from the hammer pivot point when in the cocked position. On randy hammer near the da release point.

Again Thanks in advance.