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Glock Ad = Dq


Malak

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I've never seen a cruciform like the one show in your "top view of cruciforms.jpg" image. It may be that the extra forming is part of the modifications in the kit. Has anyone seen a factory cruciform made like the one shown?

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Malak

Looking at the top view of your trigger-bars it for sure looks like they were made by 2 different contractors. Sucks that Glock does this but I guess when you supply about 1/3 of the world's police forces then they make choices to keep the guns delivered on time...

Looking at the side view, #3 and #4 I think either the photos are not exactly parallel or there's another big difference in the contractor parts. If you can see less contact thru the armorer's back plate then - there you go - that's a problem.

Also from pic #4 it looks like the acute angle at the back of the RS cruciform is rounded off. That's bad, pretty much always leads to the gun going full-auto. As you release the trigger from one shot the striker will slip off & bang, fire again.

For the trigger safety problem you can either use the standard trigger pull-back spring, not the heavy one OR [if you shoot Lim/Lim10] you could file the top-rear of the safety trigger which used to be common until uspsa came up with the new ruling for Production division.

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The cruciform #2 design I first saw in a Gxx series G34 in 2004.

FWIW, my fitted Vanek trigger went full auto after about 200 rounds when cruciform design #1 was installed in the G34 that originally came with style #2. Charlie had noticed the change in trigger bars and replaced the t-bar with style #2 after I spoke to him about the problem. Has not had a problem since.

Does the trigger bar type make a difference? Dunno but it did in that case.

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IIRC, you want about 60% or 2/3rds of the cruciform contacting the firing pin foot.

Less and you run the risk of...well it seems you already know what happens.

probably only 20-30% contact with the kit trigger bar

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In the second of your posts, you discuss getting a repeat with dummy rounds. I think you are talking about getting the slide to go forward into battery when you slam the mag into the magwell, right? But not getting the gun to "fire", right again?

It does look like there's some irregularities with the parts, but I have some doubts about the possibility of the Glock firing without the trigger being back. All of the instances of the Glock supposedly firing "full auto" or more than one round at a time involved the trigger being pulled to fire one and actually firing two or more before the operator can release the trigger. I just don't see, and haven't heard of, a Glock firing without the trigger being back.

But I sure don't claim to have heard or read about every unexpected/unwanted "bang" from the Glock and will watch the posts on this thread with great interest.

Bob

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I am not a Glock expert by any means but isn't possible with a weaker and shorter plundger spring that some powder residue/grit may cause the pluger to get stuck in the up position.

Usually that would be very difficult with a stock spring but on the one glock I owned the fit of the plunger to the slide was tight. I wonder if a weaker spring might not have enough ooompf to reset the plunger if fouling is present. In that case the gun could fire without having your finger on the trigger.

Edited by rubberneck
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In the second of your posts, you discuss getting a repeat with dummy rounds. I think you are talking about getting the slide to go forward into battery when you slam the mag into the magwell, right? But not getting the gun to "fire", right again?

It does look like there's some irregularities with the parts, but I have some doubts about the possibility of the Glock firing without the trigger being back. All of the instances of the Glock supposedly firing "full auto" or more than one round at a time involved the trigger being pulled to fire one and actually firing two or more before the operator can release the trigger. I just don't see, and haven't heard of, a Glock firing without the trigger being back.

But I sure don't claim to have heard or read about every unexpected/unwanted "bang" from the Glock and will watch the posts on this thread with great interest.

Bob

I got the actual striker to release as the slide went forward due to the mag being slammed in. It was in my house, so obviously there was no bang with the dummy round (brass with a bullet, but no powder/primer). if you look at the pictures of what the trigger was doing, the trigger safety would not engage 50% of the time. Try getting your glock trigger to hold back just a little where the trigger saftey is disengage... you can't do it with a stock trigger, or even a 3.5#connector and reduced power striker spring. As soon as the pressure is removed, the trigger moves forward enough to engage the trigger safety block. If the trigger saftey block is not engage, the orginal design assumes that there is a finger (and pressure) on the trigger. In this position, I assume that the firing pin safety block is partially disengage, if not fully disengage, mostly due to the super light spring.

Bob look at the picture (part comparison.jpg number 1) that I posted and try to get your trigger to look like that, it really helps demonstrate the point.

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Wow! I kinda see what you mean, now. I think I would let those parts sleep with the fishes and put a complete new/different set in.

I thought I knew at little something about Glocks, but this is really an eyeopener for me.

Thanks for posting this thread. Everybody seems to be seeking that slick, crisp, target quality let-off in the Glock-maybe there is a point of diminishing returns (or downright dangerous ones). Before this, I sorta believed that the worst that could happen is that the gun just would not work. :wub:

Thanks again,

Bob

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Now, from my crude understanding of the glock, i think this it is possible to discharge as the slide is going forward in the reload, which would be the same as having a double tap? As I understand it, this is caused by the striker not catching on the sear/triggerbar as the slide going forward, and since the striker is still exposed, the slide has enough inertia to fire the round.
The striker blocking safety plunger would never let that happen. For that AD to occur, that plunger would have to be stuck in the raised (fire) position at the same time the striker got jarred loose from the trigger bar as the slide banged into the frame.

Theoretically posible, probably less likely than winning the lottery.

There is no adjustment screw, but the travel seems shorter on this trigger bar than the stock one, might have something to do with redrilling the hole?
Travel is shorter on the light setups. It releases the striker with the trigger farther forward.
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The travel on HIS trigger was shorter because the engagement surface was only 20% (should be 60%). You're comment is correct, but only for this scenario. My "light setup" has the correct engagement, therefore has the same length of pull as stock.

You can repeat his circumstance by shortening the firing pin foot (that engages the cruciform). Shorter travel as it will release earlier, but this may also cause light strikes.

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The striker blocking safety plunger would never let that happen. For that AD to occur, that plunger would have to be stuck in the raised (fire) position at the same time the striker got jarred loose from the trigger bar as the slide banged into the frame.

Theoretically posible, probably less likely than winning the lottery.

The striker blocking safety plunger was not working properly, Bountyhunter. The trigger return spring was to heavy for the striker spring, which was causing the trigger safety to not work (two safetys are now out of comission). In theory, if you put in a REALLY heavy trigger spring, and all you would have to do to fire the pistol is move the trigger block safety, since the trigger spring pulls back on the trigger, and the only thing pushing forward is the power in the striker spring. My trigger was in a sort of limbo. Not enough power in the striker spring to over come the force in the trigger spring enough to push the trigger safety into place.

So technically, the trigger was half way pulled by itself, which caused the striker blocking safety plunger to be partially, if not fully disengaged (this was also due to a very weak plunger spring). Check the pictures in the middle of the post, they explain alot.

So firing pin block safety plunger is not working, the trigger safety block is not engaged, and there is hardly any contact with the striker face and the crucifrom sear. Three strikes.

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Yep, that would do it. The two springs, trigger and striker counter each other. Too heavy on one and it'll pull the trigger back defeating the firing pin safety. Get rid of the kit. The person putting it together either didn't know enough about how Glocks work to know this. Or he got sloppy and sent the wrong springs. Or he sent them, they got mixed up and you installed the wrong one back in the gun. Either way, not a good situation.

The other thing to watch for is the light recoil springs with a stock striker spring. They can come out of battery without enough spring holding the slide closed.

The trigger bar that came with the kit is actually the current version of the trigger bar. Glock changed the design a year or two ago. Not a big deal on most of the guns but it is an important change on the G-21's.

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There's a thread on fail to fire with the 45's but in short. Large pistol primers are inconsistent (construction and thickness) and less sensetive. The new connector on the 45 had a little longer tail and drew the striker back further. The reason for the stepped down construction was just fouling clearance. Gives a little extra margin for error with poor maintanence.

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I just sorta skimmed this thread, but I didnt see where you stated this trigger kit came from. If it is a Triggerkit.com kit, call Ralph and let him make it right. He has always offered to replace or refund every purchase. I'd also be glad to buy the kit from you, for whatever you paid for it, if you dont want it anymore. Send Ralph an email and I am sure he will get back to you as soon as he can.

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The shorter, smaller diameter firing pin safety spring can, in some guns, be turned sideways in the channel completely disabling the safety. That, added to tension problems caused by the other modifications (lighter/heavier, trigger/striker) could easily lead to doubling, full auto or accidental discharge.

The reason a Vanek works safely is because he does the prep for that gun and does not recommend moving parts around from gun to gun. Don’t ask me how I know this.

David C

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I just sorta skimmed this thread, but I didnt see where you stated this trigger kit came from. If it is a Triggerkit.com kit, call Ralph and let him make it right. He has always offered to replace or refund every purchase. I'd also be glad to buy the kit from you, for whatever you paid for it, if you dont want it anymore. Send Ralph an email and I am sure he will get back to you as soon as he can.

I did not want to say where the kit was from. No need to possibly damage someones business over a situation that might be totally isolated.

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The travel on HIS trigger was shorter because the engagement surface was only 20% (should be 60%). You're comment is correct, but only for this scenario.

Well, the Sotelo trigger set I got also resulted in the trigger releasing the striker farther forward than stock.... and I got occasional light strikes because the FP blocking plunger was not fully raised.

I reshaped the top of the "bird's head" to get it to travel farther back before releasing.

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The travel on HIS trigger was shorter because the engagement surface was only 20% (should be 60%). You're comment is correct, but only for this scenario.

Well, the Sotelo trigger set I got also resulted in the trigger releasing the striker farther forward than stock.... and I got occasional light strikes because the FP blocking plunger was not fully raised.

I reshaped the top of the "bird's head" to get it to travel farther back before releasing.

Should add, it works fine now and I am completely happy with the trigger.

The striker blocking safety plunger would never let that happen. For that AD to occur, that plunger would have to be stuck in the raised (fire) position at the same time the striker got jarred loose from the trigger bar as the slide banged into the frame.

Theoretically posible, probably less likely than winning the lottery.

The striker blocking safety plunger was not working properly, Bountyhunter. The trigger return spring was to heavy for the striker spring, which was causing the trigger safety to not work (two safetys are now out of comission). In theory, if you put in a REALLY heavy trigger spring, and all you would have to do to fire the pistol is move the trigger block safety, since the trigger spring pulls back on the trigger, and the only thing pushing forward is the power in the striker spring. My trigger was in a sort of limbo. Not enough power in the striker spring to over come the force in the trigger spring enough to push the trigger safety into place.

So technically, the trigger was half way pulled by itself, which caused the striker blocking safety plunger to be partially, if not fully disengaged (this was also due to a very weak plunger spring). Check the pictures in the middle of the post, they explain alot.

So firing pin block safety plunger is not working, the trigger safety block is not engaged, and there is hardly any contact with the striker face and the crucifrom sear. Three strikes.

HMMMM..... interesting. I see what you're saying. The trigger bar was far enough back to disable the FP safety and still caught the striker foot enough to cock the striker. But, only just with a tiny area of the stiker foot engaged, it could easily be jarred off and discharge.

Yeah, that sounds possible.

It means either the striker spring is WAYY too soft (I doubt it, your gun would be misfiring) or the trigger spring between the end of the bar and the disconnector is WAY too strong. If you change that spring, the problem should be fixed.

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It seems like the setup changes:

1. to a lighter striker spring (wolff?)

2. moved the trigger return spring to a high hole position

3. uses an extra power trigger return spring (which, I've seen a particular brand being prone to breakage)

Those are the 3 things that I have always cautioned against. I think most can get away with using a combination of any 2 of the above 3...but not all of them.

In addition, perhaps:

4. The angle of the "sear" portion of the trigger bar has been lowered??? (if so, this is a mod that was popular with gun/glock smiths in the past...but went out of favor because they would eventually double, then triple, then go full auto...from my understanding)

5. The angle of the tab on the trigger bar that has the hole for the trigger return spring has been altered ?? (this does a couple of thing...one being similar to adding a stronger trigger return spring, another is acting as an adjustment to block forward trigger travel)

6. Safety plunger spring modification. I commonly clip a few coils here. I am aware that there are springs that would works as replacements (I don't recall what they might be off hand).

Throw in stamped parts and variances in slide to frame fit and such...

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