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Glock Ad = Dq


Malak

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Had my first DQ today.

IDPA qualifier, first stage. After four or five strings, we had to shoot three, reload and then shoot three. Loaded, shot three, reload BANG. Accidental discharge. immediately got the STOP and Byebye. Packed up and drove home pretty early.

I am almost positive that I did not have my finger in the trigger guard, and some confirmed that to me. Wish I was being filmed, but no such luck.

So i am wondering if anyone has had an online drop-in trigger kit AD on them? <_<

Anyway, I guess I am now in 'the club' Where do I get my membership card?

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I've seen plenty of extra rounds go off from drop in or home smithed triggers. Normally they discharge a second round as the trigger is released. I've never seen one with the gun not cycling as you describe. If it did there are many many things wrong with that trigger kit. I'm not sure who you got it from, but if, and it's a big if, you didn't have the finger on the trigger, get rid of it.

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Based on my very limited understanding of the mechanics of the Glock, and knowledge of how the aftermarket kits work, I'd guess you had your finger on the trigger.... What say the Tupperware experts?

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Never seen one before.... probably the loose nut behind the trigger!

Seriously... I don't think it possble to happen on it's own. We all make mistakes.

What, you didn't hang around to become the squad "?itch". Be a sport, hang out to help and then tear down. It will always be appreciated.

Bill

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Based on my very limited understanding of the mechanics of the Glock, and knowledge of how the aftermarket kits work, I'd guess you had your finger on the trigger.... What say the Tupperware experts?

+1 for the finger on the trigger. One of our Range Officers at work had the same issue during the transition training from .38 to the Glock. Several times in a row, actually. Then he learned to keep the finger up along side of the frame during reloads, finger tip on the slide release lever, and no more problems.

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I have both (homesmith and drop-in trigger kit) in different Glocks with no problems.I would have to say without seeing it that it was shooter error.Both Glocks that I shoot have sub 3 lbs triggers and the only way that they will fire is pulling the trigger.I would recommend setting up a video camera and doing some reloads to see what you are actually doing during the reloads.I would have also hung around helped paste,keep score,RO and help tear down.Good Luck,Ken

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Y'all are pretty tough on the sportmanship aspect, given unknowns! :o

I could well see not hanging around to tape all three of the targets used during "IDPA Classifier Day." Etc. Anyway -- none of this is germane to the subject. <grin>

The pistol fired when you dropped the slide? There's not enough information, and without it, I, too, would suspect shooter error. Especially in the stress of a reload/classifier it's certainly not inconceivable, you must admit.

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I'm not sure how a Glock could fire without the trigger being pulled without having something seriously wrong. The striker isn't cocked until the trigger is pulled. Take your blaster to the range and try to duplicate it about 50 times and that should tell you something.

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On the going home early: I was told, "Sorry, go home" by the RO. So with very few words, I did.

As for the details: the gun fired as I slammed the mag in. I never hit the mag release. This happens from time to time, and I have been able to repeat this with dummy rounds. It seems that sometimes the slide release does not seat fully in the notch and with no follower pushing on it, the jolt of seating the mag causes the slide release to slip and the slide to go forward. As far as the AD, it seemed as if the gun fired as the slide went forward. The gun was actually still tilted 90 degrees clock wise and my left hand was still on the bottom. My reloading position has the gun muzzle tilted slightly upwards as well, whiched caused the round to go real high (over the burm). The RO said it went over the burm, so I believe that. He then turned around and said something to the effect, 'did any see if he had is finger on the trigger... wait, it went over th burm, thats an automatic DQ, sorry, go home.'

Now this is not an EXACT quote, but its the jist of it.

Now, from my crude understanding of the glock, i think this it is possible to discharge as the slide is going forward in the reload, which would be the same as having a double tap? As I understand it, this is caused by the striker not catching on the sear/triggerbar as the slide going forward, and since the striker is still exposed, the slide has enough inertia to fire the round.

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The problem is the firing pin safety should block this, unless the trigger is back. Now if the trigger is back, and some knucklehead rounded the top of the cruciform sear plate, to get the really bitchin' trigger pull. Yeah that would cause it. But the trigger would have to be pulled to the rear.

As far as your description, I assume you mean slide release, not mag release. If so, this happens quite frequently. Never count on it though. The weaker you mag springs the less likely a round will go in the chamber. I've had it happen to me a couple times this year with an empty chamber. Which in your case would have been a good thing.

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this trigger kit also seems to make the gun have a pretty weak trigger reset, as in it feels like it barely has enough power to get the saftey on the trigger itself to click back into place. :wacko:

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stripped it apart, nothing broken or bent (as far as I can tell). My gut tells me that something is wrong with the trigger kit. The kit is definitely light, and the qualifier was only the second time i fired the pistol with the new kit. the first time was at the range, about 50 rounds, no hard reloads, just group shooting.

Again, gut feeling is all I have right now, and my gut says go back to the polished factory trigger bar and my old spring setup, and live with a three pound trigger with a little more travel.

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stripped it apart, nothing broken or bent (as far as I can tell). My gut tells me that something is wrong with the trigger kit. The kit is definitely light, and the qualifier was only the second time i fired the pistol with the new kit. the first time was at the range, about 50 rounds, no hard reloads, just group shooting.

Again, gut feeling is all I have right now, and my gut says go back to the polished factory trigger bar and my old spring setup, and live with a three pound trigger with a little more travel.

"A little more travel'?????????

Is this a drop in kit with a take-up adjust screw ? (screw in the front of the block, just

below the ejector)?

If it is, and the takeup is screwed in to the point of pushing the left side of the cruciform

back to the point where it is on the ramp in the hole, then yes, it could jar the trigger bar

down and drop the striker. There would also be something very wrong with that trigger bar. Either a rounded edge at the sear striker engagement surface, or someone is messing

with re-shaping the birdshead.

Get a gunsmith slide cover plate, Look at the trigger bar/striker engagement. Sneak

in there with a little screwdriver and see if you can push the trigger bar down off of the striker.

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There is no adjustment screw, but the travel seems shorter on this trigger bar than the stock one, might have something to do with redrilling the hole? I did not modify the trigger bar, it came modified in the mail, so cannot tell you exactly what was done to it. I have an orange armorers plate at work, and will fiddle with that concept tomorrow.

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My kit came with a small weak spring to go in the firing pin safety which I didn't use because it allowed the firing pin safety to bounce when I shook the slide. Try putting the original spring back in. Also get on the phone to Ralph, I am sure he would like to know about an AD with his kit.

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If you did have the "other" problem, don't think you're alone. It's a common condition that is not bragged about often...

It's really easy to let your hands find *creative* ways to accomplish what you want to do. If you spend a lot of time dryfiring with a timer & trying to beat the 1.x second par time for a mag change [incl. reaction time] then it may surprise you to see how early your trigger finger has decided to start doing it's thing.

Nice way to prevent this is to only touch the trigger on practice mag changes, don't go thru with the complete drop of the hammer/striker. Instead of audible confirmation, go by feel.

It's good to work on sequences, really slowly, once in a while. I might do 10 or 20 sloooow mag changes in a row to watch out for wasted motion, inconsistent positions and such, but I'm also paying attention to this: I want EVERY seating of the mag into the mag catch to happen while the tip of my trigger finger is still out on the frame of the gun. That sequence is one you don't want to let slip into something else.

A good sequence of the draw might include the support hand coming onto the grip while you still feel the trigger finger out on the frame of the gun.

A small piece of skateboard tape out on the frame [or top outside corner of the trigger guard] can give you good feedback on where your finger is at when it's not supposed to be shooting the gun.

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The problem is the firing pin safety should block this, unless the trigger is back. Now if the trigger is back, and some knucklehead rounded the top of the cruciform sear plate, to get the really bitchin' trigger pull. Yeah that would cause it. But the trigger would have to be pulled to the rear.

I agree with Chuck.

The trigger had to be back, unless the firing pin safety (plunger) was non functional somehow?

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I've seen a couple home gunsmith'ed Glocks that would fire as described. In each case the "take-up" on the trigger had been reduced to the point where the drop safety and the firing pin safety had been disabled. Usually via a set screw, pin, block, etc. in the "muzzle" end of the ejector housing "window".

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Okay, after extensive examination, testing, etc. I have come to some conclusions on my problem. Would like everyones opinion and corrections if I am wrong about something.

1. The striker spring was too light for the trigger spring, or the trigger spring is to heavy for the striker spring, which ever way you want to look at. This seems to cause the trigger safety to not engage about half the time. which is number 1 and 2 of picture titled 'part comparison.' It occurs about half the time.

2. The firing pin safety spring seems WAY to light, picture title 'springs' shows number 1 being the spring that came with the kit, and number 2 being the stock spring.

3. The angle of the cruciform on the trigger bar does not create enough contact between the sear and striker. picture titled 'part comparison' number 3 is stock and number 4 is the kit trigger bar. Notice that number 4 has the hole relocated/shorten. Which I don't think caused the unsafe condition. Using the orange armorers plate, there is hardly any contact between the striker and the cruciform. And with very little effort i could poke at the cruciform and knock it loose, releasing the striker. Now if the condition listed in my first point is present, it could fire a round. I would have shown a pic of the contact, but could not get one that would have been useful.

4. The general way in which the two trigger bars where manufactured seems total different, which you can see in the pic title 'top view of cruciforms' Number 1 is the stock one that came in the G35 and number 2 is the one from the kit.

Now I have not had time to go try and get it to double or repeat what happened at the range. But I think by just closely examining everything, I can see stuff that is wrong. I will be going back to the set up I had before, and be happy with it.

post-8630-1156183963.jpg

post-8630-1156183981.jpg

post-8630-1156183998.jpg

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Looks like the one spring has been cut/shortened, and does not look as thick as the other (could be my failing eyesight). Or it may be a spring from a 1911 that looks like the glock one but is lighter. Seen that one before.

The trigger bars numbered 3 and 4 seem radically different. Not only does 4 have part of it cut off, but if the hole has been redrilled, it seriously changes the geometry of the pull. Maybe even getting some burring or catching on the spring itself that attaches there. Also looks like the geometry of the cruciform and other parts has been changed/straightened/heated/bent or something.

Not to say that that exact kit would not work perfectly in another glock, but there is enough variance in the models for issues to occur. Put the stock back in, enjoy the 3 pound pull you said you had with it,and the comfort of knowing it goes "bang" only when you want it to.

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