cpty1 Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 According to the rulebook, holster and allied equipment must be positioned behind the center of the hip bone for US production division shooters. However, at the Limited Nationals I was instructed by the ROs to move my holster and mags behind the center line of my pants. Is there not a big difference between behind center of hip bone and behind centerline of pants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 Did you go back to the motel and iron a nice crease down the center of the front of your pant legs? I don't think the ROs have medical degrees in human anatomy and they haven't seen your hip x-rays. Their just doing the best they can with a difficult-to-enforce rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 The centerline of your pants, or the side seam of your pants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpty1 Posted October 31, 2001 Author Share Posted October 31, 2001 No, didn't use the iron. I was just surprised that the application of the rule and descriptive verbage was different than that in the rulebook. Behind the center of the hipbone is certainly forward of the bodily centerline, while behind the "normal" pant centerline is certainly behind the bodily centerline. It would just seem to me if they're going to use the pant centerline as a barometer for correct placement, then that should be stated in the rulebook and eliminate the confusion. Our local clubs are still enforcing the center of hipbone regardless of the interpretation at the nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpty1 Posted October 31, 2001 Author Share Posted October 31, 2001 By centerline, yes, I mean the side seam where the front and back halves of your pants are sewn together. I think IDPA rules refer to it as centerline, though you're correct, it would be more accurately referred to as the side seam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 It's kind of lame to expect somebody to carry five or six ten-round magazines behind the hip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted October 31, 2001 Share Posted October 31, 2001 I guess stages should be designed with the "right kidney" limitation: When you need a magazine past your right kidney to keep going, its time to cut back the round count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpty1 Posted October 31, 2001 Author Share Posted October 31, 2001 Exactly, some of the production shooters look like a pretzel reaching for that fifth mag on a high count field course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 Then the Limited and Open shooters don't like the neutered stages. If you make a Revolver neutral stage, you are forcing Prod. and L-10 shooters to carry 40% extra ammo and do extra reloads. The M.D. of a match should have the discretion to not enforce the Production hip rule, except for classifiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpty1 Posted November 1, 2001 Author Share Posted November 1, 2001 My bad; my exactly response above was more related to the kidney reference; not reducing the round count on the stages. I think everyone enjoys a high count field course as long as there is some balance in the other stages of a match. Those that don't probably aren't shooting IPSC anyway. Holster position could be as is, with some consistency of application with wording in the rulebook. I would like to see mag placement rules modified to prevent the need to have mags strung from the left/right side all the way around to the middle of the shooters back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted November 1, 2001 Share Posted November 1, 2001 I'm glad you clarified the side seam - they were flat out wrong :-) I'm going to fire off an email and get clarification on this - I was told something different by Voigt but Amidon may have made a ruling to make the rule enforceable. I've told all the local shooters to move their equipment forward - so that the back of the holster is about an inch from the side seam. As that is truly behind the center of your hip bone! (Hips are in the front, Gluteous (sp) is the side and back :-)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 I thought I understood this rule...now I have no stinkin' clue. Shooter Grrl - While you're at it, will you please tell those RO turkeys to put a picture in Front Sight clearly illustrating the "proper" position? I get the pants seam deal, but if I can move stuff forward life will be SO much better. Thx, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted November 4, 2001 Share Posted November 4, 2001 Here's what I got back from Amidon and Voigt: "put your gear on, stand in front of a mirror sideways and if it looks like the holster is towards the front, move it back." and "The USPSA rules use center of the body as a reference. IPSC rules the forward point of the hip bone. The seam of the pants is usually a good indicator, but there are pants without an outside seam and other variations of clothes design and body builds that we can't address." So - i was confusing the 2 rules! Looks like USPSA is enforcing behind the center of the BODY, rather than behind the center of the hip bone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpty1 Posted November 4, 2001 Author Share Posted November 4, 2001 I knew they were enforcing it that way...at least at the limited nationals. Enforced one way; worded another in the rulebook. You gotta love it. Their enforcement made it clear they were taking the IDPA approach regarding holster and mag placement. I'm not saying IDPA is perfect, but at least they worded their rule in a manner to eliminate any confusion. They need to put something in "Front Sight" to better get the word out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 I've seen some serious abuse of that rule. My fix, make sure the mag pouch doesn't angle toward your belly. It seems as long as your pouches are perpendicular to your shoulders, no one will question the location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted November 27, 2001 Share Posted November 27, 2001 Actually, the IDPA Rule Book doesn't say you have to have the holster behind the centerline of the body, it says you have to have the center of the pad of the trigger behind the body's centerline. Allow me to quote from the Rule Book: "The holster must position the pistol so the center of the trigger pad is behind the centerline of the body from a side view and all magazines and magazine carriers for pistols must be positioned behind the centerline. Revolver ammunition carriers may be worn directly in front of the holster on the strong side. The seam on the side of a shooter’s pants may or may not indicate where the centerline of a shooter’s body is located. If you can conceal your pistol/holster/ammunition carriers with a light windbreaker and comfortably draw your pistol while seated in an automobile with bucket seats, your equipment is probably okay. Exception – Police/military officers may use their duty rig, but ALL retention features of the holster MUST be used." This works well for me because I wear the holster on my everyday concealment rig a bit farther forward than most people, I find that a LOT more comfortable than driving the gun butt into my floating ribs every time I sit in a car...but by God I've got that trigger pad behind my pants seam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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