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Outrunning A Shotgun Benelli/rem


markd

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I am in the market for a new semi-auto shotgun to shoot in combat shooting competition. I want to know how the Rem. 11/87 compares to the Benelli Super 90 in terms of cyclic rate or if it even matters. Can a shooter really outrun a Remmie? Does it matter? How about the Benelli super 90 versus the Super Black Eagle? Is the SBE slower than the S90 or can it really matter? Also, why does no one mention the Super X 2 shotgun much? Sorry for so many questions. I just need lots of info. Thanks in advance.

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You can't outrun any of them. The reason you don't hear about the SX-2 is because they continually have problems as do the Browning Golds. They are both built in the same place by the same company.

The orginal Super X-1 is one of if not the best autoloading shotgun ever made. When they first came out a competition model(skeet and trap) was 500.00 + and a brand new Tournament Grade 1100 was under $400.00. They were discontinued because of low sales.

I have several SX-1s and they were all hand fit ie:bolts and internal parts and the tolarences are so close parts won't interchange. They also had a steel receiver.

For what you want stick with the Benelli Super 90 or the Remington 1100 neither one will let you down with normal care and maintenance.

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If you are just making noise... yes you may be able to outrun any of those guns.

If you are going to get a shotgun for 3 Gun... it doesn't really matter. I've yet to see a stage where you are required to just outright dump rounds onto a single solitary target where there's a chance you will outrun the gun. Double taps are very rare in the sport.

For normal 3 Gun I wouldn't worry about it.

From what I've read, from slowest to fastest cyling (stock):

Remington 1100/1187 ==> .14 secs

Bennelli M1 ==> .13 secs

X2/Gold ==> <.13 secs

If you can get .13 splits with a pistol you have the trigger speed required to outrun the Remmy.

If you are gonna mostly do speed shooting on plates get the X2/Gold.

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Sure you can outrun any shotgun into the berm.

What counts is your target transitions, I have yet to meet the person that can run .130 splits on poppers, plates or targets with slugs.

Take a timer to the range and check yourself. You will find reloads and movement is where the time is gained and lost with a shotgun.

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My experience beating up shotguns is fairly extensive, but all clay target and hunting related. That said I will toss my two cents out.

I have been shooting SuperX2's for about 5 or 6 years and Golds for a little longer. I bought an X2 within several months of them hitting the market, so it may actually be a little longer. Once you learn how to keep them up they run and run and run and run. Both run better BY FAR than the box stock Benelli's I have had including the Super 90 and the SBE. Both require a little different lube strategy than normal. I slather the reciever rails with oil or light grease, slather the bolt to carrier contact areas, and run the rest of the gun absolutely bone dry.

I have run my X2 in excess of 5000 rounds without cleaning or a jam, just add a couple drops of oil every thousand rounds or so. Same with the Golds. My 'high mileage X2' has over 35K rounds through it and only 3 jams with factory ammunition. All three times were hunting, one was a big stick in the trigger group, one was undetermined cause and one was -15* and icy as hell so at least it went bang. I was not surprised that in the 20 shells I shot in the -15* temps that it jammed, it was full of Mobil 1 15w-50 motor oil and even Mobil 1 gets awfully thick in those temps. Some of the reloads I feed it would make a beggar feel like a cheapskate, and it runs them better than anything else I have had except an old SuperX1. Well, until one drops shot in the action LOL.

I am pretty much tapped out at .25 splits with a shotgun and hit anything at all in particular, the cyclic rate doesn't really matter to me that way. The fast cyclic rate of the X2 is nice in that all the mass flying around in the gun while it cycles finishes a little quicker and it feels a little more stable than some of the other guns. It doesn't make the plink bang schliingggg clack schlinck tack noise of the 1100 or 11-87 either, more of a tick bang clack clack. The lock time of the Benelli really bothered me too, they take FOREVER from sear release to the shot, makes tight or long shots on clay targets a lot harder for me.

I spent a lot of money on the Benelli guns, and took it in the shorts when I got rid of them. Right out of the box I have to say no, I wouldn't own one again, not unless they come up with a new action design that is a little more forgiving. I would like to try one from Benny Hill or Beven Grams though, just to see how it feels and shoots. From what I hear those guys can really make one sing. The bad part for me with the Benelli is they fit me well right off the rack and I shot them really well, I just couldn't get along with with the reliability I got from them. The X2 is the only gun I have found since that fits me as well, luckily for me I shoot it just as well and it runs like an atomic clock.

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The reason you don't hear about the SX-2 is because they continually have problems as do the Browning Golds.

Absolutely wrong. I had a SX2 Mk I for around 10k rds and only replaced the magazine spring and the lifter spring. As long as it was fed decent ammo (any of the Wal Mart 12 ga) it ran like a champ. I sold it to another shooter locally and it is still running strong. I replaced it with a Turkey Model SX2 and again have an out of the box gun that did not need warming over by Benny or Bevan and did not need the maintenance schedule of a top fuel dragster (Remmy).

Do some searches in the 3 Gun Shotgun Technical forum and you will find plenty of info to keep you occupied for a while.

You will not be able to out run any of the guns.

Good luck, Craig

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Thanks to all for the info. Sorry if I started a thread on the wrong forum. This is my very first day here. I'm just trying to sort out the myth from the reality on shotgun performance. I am new here but not new to shooting, IPSC since late 1980s and IDPA since 1997. I seem to feel and hear the bolt cycle on Remmies and it seems slow to me. The Benellis I have had jam horribly with anything but pristine factory ammo and good weather. A little dirt and a little cold will lock them up. My knee jerk response was to go with the X2 but I hear getting accessories for them is more difficult. Mainly I am interested in a smooth and fast and reliable piece that will take a beating and keep on ticking.

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Mark,

There is some truth in the fact that there aren't as many available doodads for the x2's. One reason is they just don't need as much aftermarket support. Here's a list for you.

Briley and Surecycle both make extended magazine tubes.

Briley makes a very nice charging handle.

Hiviz makes a great FO optic sight setup that will fit any gun.

3 Gun Gear makes any kind of sidesaddles/shell carriers you may need.

Brownell's carries plenty of stock parts should you need a replacement.

I have been very happy with both of the X2's I have owned. For me they simply ran and ran. Maintenance wise I simply would hose out the receiver, bolt, and gas piston with brake cleaner, wipe the rest of the gun down to remove whatever gunk had collected, and then relube and shoot the hell out of them.

Take care, Craig

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My 1187 broke in Bali during the Indonesian SG Championships in 2004. I borrowed an 1100 and it was noticeably slow to cycle. I had to wait for it. On the other hand I've shot thousands of rounds through an 1100 I owned many years ago and it cycled every bit as fast as my competition 1187. I timed 6 shots out of it in a true 0.92, giving splits of about 0.15.

I guess the cyclic rate varies from gun to gun, even within type. It shouldn't vary so much but I have personally experienced it.

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...The X2 is the only gun I have found since that fits me as well, luckily for me I shoot it just as well and it runs like an atomic clock.

That's exactly the some experience I've had with my SX2. Some people do major work to get their shotgun to run right, the only thing I had to do to mine was take it out of the box and shoot the Hell out of it!

Ed

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Thanks again for the quality info. It seems that the SX2 may be a better choice than I had previously thought even. Still the Benelli seems to rule the cirquit. Does anybody know why? I mean, whether the reasons are "real" or "perceived" what are the supposed features that make a Benelli superior to the SX2?

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I think availability has a lot to do with it from the standpoint that the Benellis were available and established long before the SX2's were available. Also if you think about where this sport generated interest was from combat use. Therefore the company that already made combat ready autoloaders (Benelli) had a huge jumpstart.

Really each has a couple of advantages over the other, and both have a couple disadvantages as well.

Do a few searches in the shotgun forum and you will find all the arguements for and against. Then try to shoot a couple from guys in your local club. Buy what YOU want and then make it run.

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Cyclic rate is the absolute least of your concerns. Yes, a shotgun can be "outrun" but I have yet to see it happen in a competition and I've seen some pretty speedy shotgun shooting. Pick a shotgun that you like and start practicing.

I'm shooting a Benelli because to me it is the least worst shotgun. But I have yet to play with an Extrema. SX2s are ok but I personally prefer the handling of a Benelli. Not that YOU won't prefer an SX2 or Remington. Try to shoot or at least handle them all and then make a decision.

As far as I'm concerned there is no "reliable" shotgun. Just differing degrees of unreliable ones. I think Benellis have come to prominence because they break less than the other shotguns. Smokshwn's point about Benellis beating SX2s to the market has merit to it. But be warned I have seen every variety of shotgun go down and usually at the worst possible moment.

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Kelly,

When you take a look at the Extrema's that mag opening is deep and narrow. Without some serious cutting/shaping I don't see it being near as competitive as the big 3.

That's also noting that on any given day you and Kurt could light me up with a Stevens single shot.

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Mark,

Have you, or anyone else for that matter, looked at the new FN combat shotguns? They appear ready to go right out of the box. There is a small article about it in this months Guns and Ammo. (the one with the Super Nova on the cover) It has an 8 round magazine, a 22 inch barrel equiped with invector chokes and a cantilever mount as well as hi-viz sights. Outwardly it looks like a close copy of a Super 90 with all the bells and whistles. I wonder if it will run?

Owen

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That FN looks to be a Super X2 with different markings. I think that was the Mk II version with the cantilever on it. Don't forget that FN owned Winchester.

Yep, just visited both websites and the differences seem to be only cosmetic. Sort of like compairing a Chevy to a GMC pickup.

OS

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That FN looks to be a Super X2 with different markings. I think that was the Mk II version with the cantilever on it. Don't forget that FN owned Winchester.

FNH still owns the company that we know as "Winchester" and the FN SLP looks EXACTLY like my SX2 MKI. I know I was a little shocked when I got the shotgun home and read on the barrel below the Winchester name "FN Belgium".

Olin owns the Winchester name and leases it to FN, there's been a lot of speculation as to what will happen when the lease runs out. As it happens FN also owns Browning, THIS announcement from Olin a couple of days ago, that basically says that Browning will manufacture and distribute Winchester rifle and shotguns.

So what's the relevance to this thread? It looks like if you own or buy and SX2 that you'll be able to get parts and service. That's something I've been a little worried about...

Ed

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I had the same worry about parts availability. My gunshop guy told me yesterday that the X2 was no longer being made and had been replaced by the SX3 that is made in Japan. He needed a replacement X2 for a customer and was told they were no longer available and that they would replace it with a new X3. The customer was not all that pleased from what I can gather with the made in Japan deal. I am just repeating hearsay here but it casts a confusing shadow on the thoughts of a new X2 purchase.

Owen just needs to sell me one of those Benellis he has ratholed away!!!

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I wouldn't hesitate on the SX2. Parts will be available and the rumor has it that FN will still be producing winchester guns to include the model 70 and 94 rifles. Anyway, with a quick search there were a few good pickings on Gunbroker.

Turkey Model

Practical MK1

Nother Turkey Model

One to send to AH61P

Nother Gold for Jerry

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