Cylinder End Shake

[toothguy]

For you guys, what is the ideal endshake to leave on a competition wheelgun to reduce risk to bind up and still run freely with hundreds loads in a hot summer day ?

Almost zero, just at the point it will free spin.

[Patrick1981]

With thermic dilatation, at zero endshake isn't possible bind up ?

I post this question, beacause somewhere I read is better leave 0,001 or at maximum 0,002 tolerance to haven't this problem.

[Bubber]

Patrick, that sounds about right. I shim until a 0.02 will not fit in the yoke. The more dirty the powder the more this comes into play. I should not have to, but between stages I brush out my cylinders and clean beneath the extractor rod, just to be sure. My L frame is getting a little more endshake now and I will not put another in until it loosens up enough to fit another shim in easily. Later rdd

[toothguy]

With thermic dilatation, at zero endshake isn't possible bind up ?

I post this question, beacause somewhere I read is better leave 0,001 or at maximum 0,002 tolerance to haven't this problem.

Patrick, I have not measured mine, I use a frame stretcher (looks like a pipe cutter only not sharp) instead of shims. There is also a crane cutting tool that trues the end of the crane. I stretch the frame a little at a time until it is to tight, then I true the crane end until it spins free. When done it is pretty tight but after shooting a few rounds it is perfect. I am also careful to remove any burrs on inside and outside edge of the crane end. This seems to hold up well, I learned this from Toolguy.

Edited December 6, 2012 by toothguy

[Patrick1981]

In future I really like to learn to use the crane stretcher..

When use it, inside the joke is required the yoke alignment tool yes?

[toothguy]

In future I really like to learn to use the crane stretcher..

When use it, inside the joke is required the yoke alignment tool yes?

Yes, or you will collapse the crane. Just do a little at a time and check. If you buy one it will come to sharp and will cut the crane. You need to flatten (dull) the wheel on a lathe or drill press. This will squash a ring around the neck of the crane, with the yoke alignment tool inside to prevent collapse, without cutting the crane.

Edited December 6, 2012 by toothguy

[Patrick1981]

The stretching tool sale on Midway is ready out of box or flatten wheel required?

[toothguy]

The stretching tool sale on Midway is ready out of box or flatten wheel required?

Not sure, I got mine from Brownell's it may be the same one. The ones I have seen are all sharp and will cut rather than stretch the crane. I don't have a lathe yet so I took the wheel off and put it in my drill press with a couple of light file strokes and it was good to go. I'm not home currently I will check the brand later. Warren (Toolguy) has a real nice older one, not sure of the brand.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

When I attended the S&W armorer school, all we did was take a cheap copper tubing cutter and dull the wheel. Make sure the wheel edge is flat and you use a yoke liner.

Another way which was used by factory fitters doing repairs was to use the yoke liner and a small ball peen hammer to peen over the end of the yoke. when finished file it flat or use the Power Custom Yoke reamer.

http://www.ebay.it/itm/Mini-Tubing-Cutter-1-8-to-5-8-Copper-Brass-Tool-/270651090653?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f040fe6dd

This cutter will do what you want after the wheel is dulled

[Toolguy]

A tubing cutter will work, but the cutting wheel is too thin. It is better to replace the wheel with a shop made one that is about 2mm (.080) wide on the edge that contacts the crane. The 2mm wide surface should be flat so that it squshes the metal rather than cutting it. Peening and filing the end is not a good way to do this job, it gives an uneven and crooked end for the cylinder to run against. The Power Custom tools and stretcher give a smooth, very square end for the cylinder to run on. The square end has less friction and lasts longer than the crooked end where the cylinder just touches at one point.

[Patrick1981]

How many times can ben stretch a yoke? For total lenght of ?

I see on one of my 686 stretched by Cuttitta in 2009, he work on the yoke portion near the end, near the back of cylinder.

It' s possibile do it only in this portion ?

I'm also interesting to a yoke face reamer..it's useful ?

I'm not shure my yoke face is very flat..

I'm very excited to learn this state of the art job !

[toothguy]

How many times can ben stretch a yoke? For total lenght of ?

I see on one of my 686 stretched by Cuttitta in 2009, he work on the yoke portion near the end, near the back of cylinder.

It' s possibile do it only in this portion ?

I'm also interesting to a yoke face reamer..it's useful ?

I'm not shure my yoke face is very flat..

I'm very excited to learn this state of the art job !

Patrick, if you buy a crane stretcher I would by the yoke face reamer at the same time. They work hand in hand, you go just a little to long and slightly trim back perfectly flat. I use the end of the yoke facing reamer in the yoke, instead of the yoke alignment tool, to prevent collapse.

[Patrick1981]

Hello

I'm back on this post for another question.

I own about two years ago about a 686-2 intake of 1987 in very good condition, the owner had held for 22 years in the drawer. Not a sign of rotation of the cylinder, not a scratch, perfect in alla parts.

I've always kept aside, except December I used it for a workout to 300 rounds and after this May in a match of 200 round (always with factor reloaded ammunition).

After cleaning, I began to feel a resistance on the rotation. I gave gasoline and tried to clean with compressed air residue in the cylinder yoke crane where he works and than oiled. The cylinder opens and closes well and the rod is perfectly aligned.

But there is still this "brake" noise and cylinder slows down very quickly.

After have cleaned one more time, I do the test of endshake and I realize that there is! Was not there before!

Can go any which has developed with cos' a few hits?

Is it possible that this is the cause of the strange friction in the rotation?

Thanks a lot

[bountyhunter]

Hello

I'm back on this post for another question.

I own about two years ago about a 686-2 intake of 1987 in very good condition, the owner had held for 22 years in the drawer. Not a sign of rotation of the cylinder, not a scratch, perfect in alla parts.

I've always kept aside, except December I used it for a workout to 300 rounds and after this May in a match of 200 round (always with factor reloaded ammunition).

After cleaning, I began to feel a resistance on the rotation. I gave gasoline and tried to clean with compressed air residue in the cylinder yoke crane where he works and than oiled. The cylinder opens and closes well and the rod is perfectly aligned.

But there is still this "brake" noise and cylinder slows down very quickly.

After have cleaned one more time, I do the test of endshake and I realize that there is! Was not there before!

Can go any which has developed with cos' a few hits?

Is it possible that this is the cause of the strange friction in the rotation?

Thanks a lot

check to see if the cylinder rod is coming loose. It has reverse threads, never turn it until you put fired brass in the cylinder tubes.

Clean under the extractor star.

Make sure the yoke is not bent.

Don't use gasoline for cleaning. It can turn you into a crispy critter.

[Patrick1981]

Never of this situation.
After gasoline I put Break Free..

[Toolguy]

The brake noise and cylinder slowing down very quickly is probably due to minor out of roundness of the crane tube on the outside. The irregular surface sets up vibrations if you spin the cylinder fast.

The way to fix this is to put the crane in a vise with the tube sticking out the side and use a strip of sandpaper and polish it with a "shoe shine" action. Use 180 grit to 320 grit, something in that range of coarseness, and do the top, both sides and bottom. This will remove a small amount of material and most of all make the tube very round by removing any high spots or ridges. Clean all abrasives off and oil as normal. Usually after that the cylinder will run like it's on ball bearings.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Toolguy

[Patrick1981]

Thanks Warren, but for endshake ? I try with a 0,002 shim ?

I have bad and good experiences with shims, sometime I put the smallest shim and after a few shot I damage the ratchet, making a ugly signs probably made by the contact from hand to ratchet..