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USPA Equipment Rules Questions


GordonB

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At a recent match, an RO and the MD saw that I was using a fiber optic sight while shooting Production.  I told them it was legal and since they were unsure they let me go.  I have since found out where Amidon ruled on this issue and emailed the MD.  Since Production is relatively a new division,  I would like to assemble a FAQ or a list on the various gray areas that come up in the division.  I would like to include the text or at least a reference to it in the FAQ/list.  So when a question on the legality of my equipment came up, I could just whip out this list and show the RO where the ruling could be found.  

I haven't been monitoring/reading the IPSC list for awhile and I tried to answer my own questions by looking at the archives.  I haven't found the answers to the following questions, so so solly if its a rehash.  If Amidon has ruled on the following and it has been committed on paper (i.e. Front Sight or USPSA web site) please note in your answers where the ruling can be located.

Production Related Questions:

1. I have an LTT trigger job on my EII.  One of the things that he does to a Beretta is to add a "Speed Bump" on the trigger (actually he replaces the trigger).  The modification is essentially an unadjustable overtravel stop.  It could be legal in that it is "action work".  But it also could be illegal in that it is an external modification that has nothing to do with the sights.  Is this item a legal modification?  (As an aside, did Langdon use a Speed Bump trigger in FGN?)

2. In the same vein, a lot of Vertec shooters do not like the short triggers on their guns and have replaced it with the old style triggers found on the original 9x series.  Would this modification be legal?

3. Cocking the gun on the first shot (as in drawing, cocking to single-action and engaging the first target), is this a legal practice in USPSA?  Pinto says that it isn't legal in IPSC.  He quoted the rule that the first should MUST be double action.  I could have sworn that Amidon had written in Front Sight somewhere (I took a quick look and I couldn't find the passage) that it was OK in USPSA.  Is my memory failing me or am I getting it mixed up with IDPA (where it is legal)?    

4. I know adding a magwell is illegal, but is beveling a magwell legal?  Arguably, the beveling of a magwell is not an external modification since it is 1) INSIDE the magazine channel and 2) is not visible when a magazine is in place.

5. I took a recent class from Gabe Suarez, and he mentioned that a number of Officers carried their DA/SA guns with the hammers on the secondary (the notch that catches the hammer if the primary notch fails) hammer notch.  The first shot would still be DA and at this start position and the hammer is down... but just not fully .  Is this practice legal for USPSA?    

6. I think a number of you wrote that while race holsters were not permitted, race mag pouches were.  I think this was just a problem of omission in the rules.  Did Amidon come out and say outright that race pouches were OK?  If so where?

 

7. I read somewhere (post of a shooter who had emailed Amidon) that Amidon basically stated that milled in Bomars for Production would be OK.  Is this in "writing" anywhere?

8. Are the Lightning Strike triggers for the Glock be Production legal (the safety disconnect on the trigger is wider and can be externally seen)?

Limited 10/ Limited Questions:

1. I was debating on getting a tungsten magwell for a G35.  But rereading the rules for L10 and Limited, it states that: External modifications such as weights, or devices to control or reduce recoil are specifically not allowed.  I would have gotten a magwell in either steel, brass or tungsten to dampen the G35, would this modification be legal in USPSA?  If it isn't, then a lot of shooters, including some big dogs would not be in compliance with the rules.

2. In the same vein, are the tungsten MSH legal for L10/Limited?

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Quote: from GordonB on 11:47 am on Aug. 23, 2002

Limited 10/ Limited Questions:

1. I was debating on getting a tungsten magwell for a G35.  But rereading the rules for L10 and Limited, it states that: External modifications such as weights, or devices to control or reduce recoil are specifically not allowed.  I would have gotten a magwell in either steel, brass or tungsten to dampen the G35, would this modification be legal in USPSA?  If it isn't, then a lot of shooters, including some big dogs would not be in compliance with the rules.

2. In the same vein, are the tungsten MSH legal for L10/Limited?

I think that the rule you are quoting is aimed at external devices that are PURELY a weight or recoil system, such as strapping on lead weights under the barrel, etc.  A mag well has a specific function to the gun, and would be ok regardless of material. Course, thats not a ruiling, just my educated guess/opinion.

The only thing about buried Bomars I've seen is a thread where "someone asked Voigt,who said its legal" but I haven't seen it written anywhere from USPSA.... frankly, I'm surprised it IS legal as its an external modification to the gun to put on a non stock sight. I would have thought you could use whatever sight you want, as long as it fits the STOCK sight dovetails, but oh well.

You're questions on the Beretta mods are interesting points, I'm considering doing some of those mods myself...... anyone?

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I called USPSA HQ some time ago and asked questions about the external modification rule.  I was told the Glock back strap plugs, even the plastic ones, as well as any trigger stop visible externally was considered an external modification and therefore illegal in USPSA production division.  

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My questions for a Beretta in Production:

1) Same as GordonB above, are the Langdon speed bump triggers legal in Production.

2) Is beveling the mag well legal on a 92FS, to make it similar to Elite or Vertec's mag well (not visible whe nmag seated?

3) Can I mill off the front sight of a 92FS and install a dovetailed one ala an Elite II ? (I would think so, if its legal to lo-mount a Bomar in a Glock!)

If these types of mods are not legal to make an older model more like a newer current production model, its a shame... I thought Production was made for eliminating the equipment war, but do I have to buy a whole new gun if I want these more competitive features? I wouldn't be gaining any competitive advantage over a current production Vertec (except for the trigger, perhaps). There are SO many good deals on used 92FS models out there...... be nice if there was a use for them.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I received this email from LTT concerning some of these questions as raised above (but still no answer as to whether the LTT SpeedBump trigger is legal in Production),

"Lets look at your questions one at a time.

> 1) Is it feasible (even UPSPSA Production legal) to mill

> off the front sight, and dovetail the slide for a new

> sight?

<LTT> It can be done, I am not sure if it is legal or not. I would not

recommend it as there is very little to work with on the front of the

standard slide.

>

> 2) Is it Prodcution legal to "bevel" a mag well on the

> FS, since its not visible when a mag is inserted, thus

> maybe an "internal" mod?

<LTT> That is a gray area in the rules. I think you would be OK with that

one but you would have to re anodize the frame.

>

> 3) Your "Short" LTT SpeedBump trigger, is that like the

> trigger in a Vertec (besides the bump of course)?

<LTT> Yes, it is the same trigger. I would only recommend it if you have

very small hands.

>

> I'm wrestling with the decison to either sell my 92FS

> and buy a Vertec or Elite II, or just modify my trusty

> (cheap) lo mileage FS. I'd rather keep this one, if

> possible, with the addition of a new set of sights, and

> your trigger work, possibly a Barsto barrel, etc.

>

<LTT> I think in the long run you would be better off with a Vertec or an

Elite II. They have options that make it worth the money.

Thanks again and I hope to hear from you soon.

Ernest Langdon

LTT, Inc."

I have since bought a used Elite 2 9mm, and will be installing the LTT trigger system.

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