Limited Rifle Sights

[Even]

Kelly and all you other limited rifle shooters,

I’m looking for some kind of iron sight for a flat top AR. But I really don’t know what to get. I’ve been looking at the DPMS sight found here: http://www.shooterstore.com/acb/showdetl.c...0&CATID=494  will this sight be OK? I like this sight better than the carry handle types, and I don’t need one with any other tactical options or whatever. What kind of click adjustments do I need, ¼ “ or ½ “? What size aperture, front sight post, etc?

Even

[ErikW]

I had the DPMS but sold it to another board member because it lacked for elevation adjustment. (I want to be able to crank it up for short range hoser stages.) Other than that, it's a decent A2/A3 type sight. I don't think you need quarter-MOA increments for 3 gun.

I got the Yankee Hill Machine sight from Bushmaster; it's pretty solid and offers more elevation. It gives the same sight picture as the DPMS or carry handle, as they all use the same basic sight system.

For AR15/M16 stock sights, the consensus is to get a thinner front post, as small as your eye will reliably focus on.

A lot of people use smaller rear apertures, too. (That is the long range aperture is smaller but the short range aperture is still large.) And again, the consensus is to use same-plane rear sights. (I'd rather have a taller large aperture to raise point of impact at the extreme short ranges we see in 3 gun, but nobody I know of makes one.)

I hope this means you are coming to the next USPSA 3 Gun Nationals.

[kellyn]

I agree with Eric.   You probably need a skinny front post - marketed as "National Match."  The stock front sights are too wide for me.  Mine is an Accuracy Speaks (as is most of my stuff!)

As for rear sights, I also agree with Eric.  I have a DPMS detachable rear sight which I was zeroing today (talk about happenstance).  It lacks enough elevation adjustment in light of recent 3 gun matches where shots have been 400 to 550 yards.  I prefer to make sight adjustments for far targets rather than hold over.  I contacted Bushmaster and Armalite.  Their detachable carrying handle A2 sights have a full range of adjustment (out to 600) and I will be getting a Bushmaster as it has 1/2 MOA adjustments (allegedly) whereas the Armalite is 1.5 MOA.  1/2 MOA is perfect for me.  1.5 MOA is too coarse (that a 4.5 inch adjustment at 300).  1/4 MOA is too small even for highpower.  You have to crank on the sight to get any real adjustment for wind etc.

I used to use a Smith Ent. USMC combat same plane rear apeture. It was the ulitmate!  The apetures were smaller than factory and allowed for more precise sight alignment.  But then I loaned it to Rob Leatham and he lost it!  (Must be an attempt to oppress me!)  I looked at Smith's catalog and they don't seem to offer that sight anymore but I will call them this week to make sure.  Currently, I have a Bob Jones rear sight which also has smaller apertures but the large aperture is about 3 MOA lower than the small one.  The large apeture is designed to take a small lens which screws in and allows the shooter to adjust his focus to the front sight.  I took that out and use it as a large aperture.

[Singlestack]

Man, I just hate it when I get "oppressed"!

Check out JP's Quick Detach Sight System. It has all the the verticle adjustment needed and then some. It is designed so you can shim the front sight if you can't get enough out of the rear. On close range targets I remove the rear sight apeture and use it the rear sight as a ghost ring. Works well. The rear sight comes with a .042 apeture which was too small for any type of fast shooting IMO so I drilled it out to .054. Thats still a little small for close shooting but great for long range. the only problem I have with it is when close and long range targets are on the same stage. I can't use my ghost ring on long range very effectively.

http://www.jpar15.com/

[Even]

SS,

I have looked at the JP sight, but I think it looks a little too fragile. I’m talking a closer look at the sight Erik mentioned.

Erik,

I just might come over for the 3-Gun Nationals next year. But this time I’ll shoot Limited, not Open as I did last time. Right now I don’t have a shotgun, but a friend of mine is about to get a Benelli. Just have to figure out the right model to get. But this might be a whole new topic.

What have to decide is if I want to do the 3-Gun sometime in May (I think?) or the Limited Nationals just prior to the World Shoot in South Africa. Right now, all three is out of the question L.

Anyone know what the bolt action deal is, at the 3-Gun Nationals?

Even

[ErikW]

My main problem with the highpower match style rear sights was they couldn't quickly transition from small to large aperture while on the clock for those stages which mix close targets and long targets.

I did get a hooded front sight which I put at the end of a 20" barrel (no small feat). Why more Limited shooters don't do this, I don't know. Maybe 'cause Bennie Cooley will still kick ass with service rifle sights.

Even, if I had to choose Limited Nationals or 3 Gun Nationals, I'd go to the pistol match. Especially since stages in Las Vegas are pretty much a known quantity, and I don't much care for them. Now if they had the same people in Las Vegas put on the Limited Nationals, then it would be a tougher choice.

[Singlestack]

Fragile??  What are you going to do with them? I got a set and that thought never crossed my mind. I only use them for shooting though

[Even]

Erik,

I know about the stages in Vegas. I was there at the 2000 3-Gun Nationals, and I was NOT impressed. I guess I'm hoping that they will be better in 2002....

SS,

I'm one of those who always tend to bang my rifle into the barricades etc. I need something that can take a beating :-)

Even

[ErikW]

The same club, same people, or rather same person, who did the last couple 3 Gun Nats is doing the next one. I don't expect much difference in the stages.

[Even]

Erik and Kelly,

when you talk about not enough elevation, is that when the dial goes to 600 yards and not 800y?

NM front sight, would that be approx. .050" wide? What size should the small rear hole be?

Even

(Edited by Even at 8:08 am on Oct. 17, 2001)

[ErikW]

First of all, everybody and their mother labels their products National Match. It's just marketing hype. I think a front sight posts around .050" is right for a standard 20" AR15.

As far as rear sight elevation, I was talking about a lack of range of adjustment. It's purely a function of how much the sight design allows the aperture to move upward. With my longer sight radius, I need the rear sight to sit higher to meet a given minute of angle needed to be on target at long range. If the rear sight tops out too early, it will limit maximum range.

[kellyn]

Even,

I don't really pay any attention to the numbering on the sight.  What I want is enough elevation adjustment clicks so that I can have zeroes from 100 to 600 yards.  When I zero, I bring the rear sight up 3-5 clicks from the bottom and shoot at 200 yards/meters.  I adjust the front sight until the rifle is zeroed at that distance.  I then go from there, zeroing 300 and now 400 and 500.  I then check my 200 yard zero on close range targets (5-100 yards) and note where the bullet impact is.

National Match posts are .050 and .054.  I think a national match rear sight commonly has a .040 aperature.  That may be a little small for 3 gunning.  I'll measure mine and get back to you.