Ultimo-Hombre Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 That one has an epic hard to achieve hi hit factor doesn't it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 Scary. Downright scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Classifiers are good for exposing gun handling weakness like drawing and reloading and this one is at the top of the list ... A one second draw, followed by .2 splits followed by a 1 sec reload followed by 5 more .2 splits is only 4.0 secs per string ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redial Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I've shot that one many times and I've really grown to hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-Bros_JLR Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 This was the first classifier I ever shot, and was at the first USPSA match I ever went to back in Dec 2010. I shot it in 12.07 with all my points for a 8.28HF and a whopping 49%! Thanks for bringing this up, I kind of want to set it up and shoot it again now to see if anything's changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robg2008 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Dang you guys are a whole lot faster than I am. I have a lot of practice to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croomrider Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I have shot this classifier twice in my relatively short career, and I seem to do better on this one than I average on most others. The last one I shot about a month ago I had 98 points in 8.04 seconds for a 73.25%. However, I think it would take a ton of improvement for me to do better on it than that! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croomrider Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Actually, I think you figured in 2 too many splits. With each 5 shots, you have 4 splits. I think a lot of people can get 5 shots off in under a second on targets this close, so that allows a little extra time on the draw and reload to stay around the 8 second mark. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Yea but 8 seconds is barely an A class time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torogi Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I think I have shot this classifier once. I was B then. Under a second draw and reload will give you a nice HF. Even at 0.18 splits. Well, I didn't shoot it that way but i found out later while messing with cm calc. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcs Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I have shot this classifier too many times. If you are not Flash Gordon, you basically suck on this classifier. IMO, it needs to be retired. If you changed the distance from the box to 30' versus 10', then you have a challenge. This classifier sets the standard for "Hero or Zero". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I shot this other day, time was 10.14 with a 9.8 HF. That got me 88% in revolver. It's simple, but you have to nail those reloads. It was a fun stage. I'm sure I can do better, but I'd have to get two great reloads. For me great in about 1.75 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croomrider Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) Yea but 8 seconds is barely an A class time. Yeah, but if you're a "C" class shooter, you're pretty happy with that! Mike Edited April 29, 2014 by Croomrider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I would love to see a video of somebody...anybody. 100% this. Draw, reload, and 8 more shots in 3 seconds, all alphas....twice? That's a .85 draw and load and .15 splits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) I would love to see a video of somebody...anybody. 100% this. Draw, reload, and 8 more shots in 3 seconds, all alphas....twice? That's a .85 draw and load and .15 splits. The 100% time on this classifier is 3 seconds per string. Below is a video of an open guy doing both strings in less than 3 seconds. And another video from a first person perspective Edited April 29, 2014 by CHA-LEE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Showing the Chris Keen (Sensei) video is apropos! Chris taught me how to run this and I used the knowledge to lay down a great run on it during the 2012 Ohio State match. I managed a second place stage finish and my one and only claim to fame,.....I beat K.C. Eusebio on the stage, lol. Total time. 6.75 seconds, 100 pts, with a HF of 14.8148 I should have looked while I was in USPSA's site, but I didn't. I think nationally it was 89% Yep this is a tough one, but I had a great teacher!!! Thanks Sensei !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 ...and if I recall correctly, the Production HHF is the same as the Open HHF. That's nice. I'll note that upon checking various well-known GM's classifier scores, I haven't seen anyone make anything close to 100% in Production division. Anyone know any shooter that made above 95% in Production on this classifier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Leveraging the 2013 Production Nationals overall finish listing, I did a classifier search on all of the GM's that attended and none of them had a 100% result in their classification history in the Production division. A few had 100% results in Open or Limited, but not Production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike21STI Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 (edited) I shot this this past weekend and had my gun malfunction the entire first string for a whopping 13 seconds(second string was and change)... let's just sat I will be throwing that classifier score out Edited May 1, 2014 by Mike21STI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Leveraging the 2013 Production Nationals overall finish listing, I did a classifier search on all of the GM's that attended and none of them had a 100% result in their classification history in the Production division. A few had 100% results in Open or Limited, but not Production. That's what I found, too. I find it interesting that HQ thinks that Production shooters can match draw and reload times with Open/Limited folks shooting out of race holsters using guns with magwells on this classifier. (And match Open split times, too.) If you have a 0.85 draw and a 0.85 reload, you just have to get .16 splits 8 times. And then do it again. If you have a 0.85 draw and a 1.0 reload, then you just need .14 splits 8 times. Twice. Even for Production, taken separately, that draw time, reload time, splits aren't impossible. Putting them together, however.... The Keen video is interesting---because he also shot that classifier back in October of 2013, and got an 84% on it. Ran it in slightly over 6 seconds, with 4 C hits and a no-shoot. Even without the no-shoot, it still wouldn't have been a GM score. This isn't any sort of slam on Keen---it is an indicator that this classifier really IS a hero/zero stage, with pretty unrealistic expectations for anyone outside of the Open and (for some people) Limited divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Take a look at the 2005 A6 Stage 1 Results -- the Genesis of this classifier..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Take a look at the 2005 A6 Stage 1 Results -- the Genesis of this classifier..... Yep. And the best that Production shooters could manage (at that match) was a HF of 13.7. Rather far off from 16.6 (about 82.5%, actually).....and yet, we all have the same HHF. (Best Limited shooter got 15.1---which ends up being only a 91%....) Yeah, that makes sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Take a look at the 2005 A6 Stage 1 Results -- the Genesis of this classifier..... Yep. And the best that Production shooters could manage (at that match) was a HF of 13.7. Rather far off from 16.6 (about 82.5%, actually).....and yet, we all have the same HHF. (Best Limited shooter got 15.1---which ends up being only a 91%....) Yeah, that makes sense... It does on some level. In a major match, people are not going all out -- because there's a danger of crashing..... At a six stage classifier match, why not go all out and zero or hero it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I find it interesting that HQ thinks that Production shooters can match draw and reload times with Open/Limited folks This isn't any sort of slam on Keen---it is an indicator that this classifier really IS a hero/zero stage, with pretty unrealistic expectations for anyone outside of the Open and (for some people) Limited divisions. Hmmmm, shooters go sub 1 sec all the time from kydex and concealment at the distances this classifier is set. Let me add that they are doing it with repeatability too. So, that HQ thinks that,.... isn't a surprise. Maybe the trigger plays a role, but I'm not even sold on that, shooters are rocking production triggers too. As a Master open shooter (Thanks to Chris Keen and others) I wanted to say that even INSIDE Open and Limited that this particular classifier is a bull to shoot. With all that said, it is the one classifier I find that puts the most emphasis on the mental game. This thing screams go fast, rush, speed, hurry, be quick, and get the lead out. I think that is what makes it such a wonderful classifier. It is a total mind screw and you have to really have it "upstairs" to get it. Those few that get it, have it, for us mere mortals, we see targets that are that close and easy and we hose ourselves with the speed. I haven't shot a GM score on this, but in the words of my Sensei, "This classifier is about the draw and reload, be relaxed" Works for him and me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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