Cm 06-03 Can You Count?

[Flexmoney]

I think it's fine.

You guys might want to spend some time figuring out how Anderson shot a 5.61s run. Or, how Shane shot a clean run in 6.02 with a Production rig.

I think the math was off a bit in an earlier post. I have the break-down like this:

0.90 draw

0.90 reload

0.15 for 8 splits

Repeat.

Not easy be any means, but doable. This is Bill Drill territory...except the targets are only at 2 and 3 yards. The reload load would be tough for me...I'd look to trade off some of that time with a faster draw. (I've done Bill Drills with 0.75 draws and 0.15 splits...that would allow for a 1.05 reload. Rockin'...for sure)

[XRe]

I agree with Flex for the most part. This is simply not an easy classifier... you must remain absolutely relaxed and smooth... Any little teeny tiny mistake means a radically lower score...

My concern about some of these 06 classifiers, though, is somewhat similar to the above - only a couple of people shot GM scores in the matches they were in, and thus would appear to be biased to the high side. I wonder how many GMs can shoot 95% on this one on demand? Hmmm....

Of course, I've shot this one, like, 3 times in the past month and a half an am now totally burnt out on it I'll take the 85% I shot last time....

[driver8M3]

You guys might want to spend some time figuring out how Anderson shot a 5.61s run. Or, how Shane shot a clean run in 6.02 with a Production rig.

wow...i didnt even see shane's post. my beef was that the production HHF was set by max, shooting open gear, not a production shooter using production gear. if we now have a production run right at the HHF, i guess that's the way it goes...and i better get to practicing.

as for steve's 5.61 second run, well anyone could do that, with a mike! (just kidding everyone).

also, we all know the classification system isn't perfect, and many HHFs seem to be set low (melody line, for one), and many seem quite high. with 06-03 it was just so obvious that uspsa was using max's open run for all the divisions, which doesn't seem quite right...but perhaps shane's run proves they got it right. btw, is it correct that shane is A class? thats a smokin run for anyone, let alone an A class shooter. i've looked through lots of local match results looking for 06-03, and besides max's run, the only other GM run i found was shannon smith shooting open (95.x%), and very few other >90% runs. it's a tough one for sure.

[Ron Ankeny]

Flex:

I am not looking at range math. I am looking at actual performance. Then again, my back ground in performance assessments is probably different than yours. If I give a test to a class full of kids and one or two get an A+, the A students get C's, the B students get D's and every one else fails I need to look at what I am testing and my assessment. That's all I am saying.

[Flexmoney]

I'm following with you.

I'm just saying that not everything needs to fit on a bell curve. Some test can be pass/fail.

This one is a great test of raw speed...and requires a certain lack of tension...on top of the draw, split, and reload skills.

At around 2 and 3 yards, this is kinda like a lot of the "real world", in your face stuff that we often hear about.

As a classifier, it's one test out of 67 (I think that is how many we have now?).

What if we shot the good old Bill Drill as a classifier? I am sure we'd be looking at a hhf of 20 on that one. That would be clean, in 1.50s. A clean 1.58s would be needed to get around a 95%. When the hf's are that high, any little drop in speed really kills the percentage. And, I don't see anything wrong with a few hard speed tests.

[Ron Ankeny]

flex:

I think we are on the same page. BTW, even though most of the guys in our little club shot the classifier below their expectations, they did think the stage was a rush and a hoot.

[Harmon]

http://www.ntpshooters.org/files/scores/09...20divisions.htm

shot today... open 100 points in 6.51 total time

"Based on HF entered, we calculate your "National Percentage" will be: 92.3191%"

that was probably the most fun ive had in a while.. two nasty reloads cost me about .7 seconds..

first draw was .80, second was .63 the reloads is what kept it from being a 100 percent run.

That was fun

Harmon

Edited September 10, 2006 by Harmon

[dfwmiket]

I've shot this twice in the last month (two different clubs)........ shot it 5% better yesterday, but still need to get much FASTER on the trigger.

Smokin' run that Harmon had, I think I was RO on that stage...and it looked sweet. This one is kinda fun!

-Mike

[HSMITH]

I think this is just silly, I don't like this classifier at all. Granted I have only shot it twice and screwed it up both times (disclosure) but I would MUCH rather see a classifier that tested more of a shooters skill set than just one or two small parts of being a well rounded shooter.

I was surpassed on this one both times by quite a few guys that absolutely cannot hang if the course has movement, distance or any type of field course. I will tear those guys apart, yet this classifier might help them move up and might help hold my classification down. Strikes me as a sandbaggers dream classifier, even a tiny bobble on the reload for instance costs you 20%......

It is my opinion that by and large a classifier should reflect overall skill levels when run, and it is my opinion that this classifier does not. Make it 3 strings for an average maybe?

It IS fun to shoot......

[Harmon]

it tests more than two things.

The reload(i bobbled both of mine and still managed 92 percent)

being relaxed and without tension at the start signal and during the course.

a lightning fast draw.

fast target transitions.

and most importantly the ability of the shooter to think and shoot at the same time.

your just not going to do well if you have a 1.5 second draw and you bobble a reload every other load...and that might be an indication of a spot you need to work on..

from what ive seen the only folks who complain about it didnt shoot it very good.

my 2 cents.

[ima45dv8]

it tests more than two things.

The reload(i bobbled both of mine and still managed 92 percent)

being relaxed and without tension at the start signal and during the course.

a lightning fast draw.

fast target transitions.

and most importantly the ability of the shooter to think and shoot at the same time.

your just not going to do well if you have a 1.5 second draw and you bobble a reload every other load...and that might be an indication of a spot you need to work on..

from what ive seen the only folks who complain about it didnt shoot it very good.

my 2 cents.

And from the number of Mikes, No-shoots and other-than-Alpha hits I've seen, I'd add shot calling to the list of skills tested.

[Harmon]

at 2 and three yards...it SHOULD be all As

im not sure exactly how you mike a target at 6 feet...but i guess it happens.

[ima45dv8]

It seems that in all the discussion we missed another important skill this one tests -- Counting. There have been a lot of Extra Shot penalties awarded to shooters on this stage.

Edited September 11, 2006 by ima45dv8

[XRe]

at 2 and three yards...it SHOULD be all As

im not sure exactly how you mike a target at 6 feet...but i guess it happens.

I rushed a reload on this one (after first bobbling it) and shot a D (the run was 3 points down, so....). You can certainly miss at that range...

[joseywales]

It seems that in all the discussion we missed another important skill this one tests -- Counting. There have been a lot of Extra Shot penalties awarded to shooters on this stage.

Didn't get to see Harmon's run but was very entertained by two other shooters on different squads failing the 'counting' part (but not 'Bill Drill' 6-in-one-target like one would first think).

First shooter put two into the second target before he remembered to reload...(after the string, he glances at toes, shakes head back-n-forth several times...deep breath, deep breath...)

On the next squad the shooter put 4 into the second target before shouting a few 'colorful' adjectives...(then after the string, she GLARED at the target for about 1 minute while holding her strong hand on her holstered gun...as if waiting for the target to just move an eyelash & she was gonna 'let 'em have it').

Oh yeah, this one was fun, fun, fun!

(Commentary - I think I've seen that same 'look' a time or two from the resident female at my house. Maybe that's why it was so entertaining for me!)

[MarkCO]

I have no problem at all with the actual classifier. It is only one of many "tests" and they should not all be the same. Beauty of the system. However when we had two solid GMs, one who has been in the top ten in the country at times, shoot low 80% range with high 13s for hit factors, there IS something very wrong. In the older classifiers, I have been able to take 2-5% off my local score compared against the GMs, once in a while, add a few percent. With this, and the other 03s, I am losing 10-15% on every classifier. I'd just like to see a written explanation that is feasible as to why.

[Ron Ankeny]

from what ive seen the only folks who complain about it didnt shoot it very good

The questions I have about this classifier have nothing to do with my personal performance. As for shooting the stage at over 90% with back to back bobbled reloads, just what is a "bobble", lol?

I think Flex is right. If a person blows it, it's flagged just like any other classifier. If a person shoots it too high, it's flagged and tossed. Eventually everything works it's way out. As for whether or not, the classifier measures what a person needs to be successful in this day and age of long courses, it's pretty obvious it does not. But then again, neither do the vast majority of classifiers in the book. Then again, if we think in terms of the recommended balance of 3,2,1 (three short to two medium to one long) then certainly this classifier would have a place.

[XRe]

My only problem with it is that its the only damn classifier I've shot for the past, what, 4-5 matches???

[Flyin40]

Shot this one today

3.34

3.31

6.65secs 99pts 89.4722% by the Ohio Calc

Looks like my reloads are keeping me from 100%

Check it out Here

Flyin40

Edited September 18, 2006 by Flyin40

[want2race]

3.90 and 3.76 today, one Charlie. HF of 12.7937, bottom A class. First time using the Ghost shooting a, now limited class, G34. My reloads were not as smooth as in practice. Choked. I made a personal improvement of over 2 seconds at least.

Edited October 2, 2006 by want2race

[Clyde]

Rock on want2race

[Zerwas]

I shot this one on 10-21-06.

How is this for consistency?

Limited division:

string 1: 3.62 seconds

string 2: 3.62 seconds

Total: 7.24 seconds

Hit factor: 13.6740

I dropped 1 point...

Came out 82% in the national classifier

I suck

[PaulW]

Holy crap, our own Smitty shot this Saturday. I did not get to see it but I thought I heard it. Crazy fast...smokin run Smitty.

Total time he shot was 5.89 down 0

[Sandro]

Holy crap, our own Smitty shot this Saturday. I did not get to see it but I thought I heard it. Crazy fast...smokin run Smitty.

Total time he shot was 5.89 down 0

Yep, I was there. Crazy fast.

results from the stage;

1 Smith, Shannon 40 GM Limited 100 0 5.89 Hit Fact 16.9779

Based on HF entered, we calculate your "National Percentage" will be: 102.0373%

[L9X25]

Holy crap, our own Smitty shot this Saturday. I did not get to see it but I thought I heard it. Crazy fast...smokin run Smitty.

Total time he shot was 5.89 down 0

Can you believe he was disappointed with the first reload ... took an entire .99 ... if only he would have had a "good" reload.

Good run despite the "terrible" reload.

If I had a .99 reload in a match I would probably jump for joy!