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Eye Snap, Target Spot


Flyin40

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I was shooting this past evening and was really working on seeing. One of the things I noticed is when your eyes snap to the next target and your looking at a spot on the next your able see everything in slow motion. Though I can't do this everytime I'm starting to to understand "seeing". My mind still wants to focus on slow or fast, in others words speed. Its coming along.

I am starting to be able to imagine how much you can see and how aware your mind is of everything that is going on.

I also noticed my shots end up in the lower Azone when I don't pick a target spot. Some drift out into the Czone kbut all are low. When I run a mental program(I just started doing it tonight) I'm able to pick spots better than doing my usual routine.

Flyin40

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My mind still wants to focus on slow or fast, in others words speed

That is a BAD thought to occupy my mind, it is the "speed thought" that will actually slow me down and decrease accuracy. When shooting I try not to think, just "do", works for me. I plan before, then do, then recall after for a mental critique. It's a routine I have tried to enforce for about a year or so now and it seeems to be working for me.

Even when doing just drills if I think just "fast/speed" I loose time (timer verified), and often times I feel awkward allthough a video may or may not show this "awkwardness" it feels that way when I finish.

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I try to shoot at just one target at a time. Therefore I focus on, and "see" only one target at a time. This gives me the most consistant / clear sight picture on every shot.

I shoot fast enough to put all of those "sight pictures" together to form a series of sight-pictures, which is almost fluid. Sort of like a movie.

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Nice post Flyin40. You're touching on some cool stuff. With some more practice you'll know (for sure) that your imagination is your only limitation.

When you "see everything" - it's like you're watching a movie. But it's not just a two dimensional movie. It's somewhat two dimensional in that you're aware of everything that is happening between the left and right edges of your vision. And it's three dimensional in that you're focus is sliding quickly and smoothly from each critical "place-time" to the next.

You'll perform better if you're always seeing something clearly. So it's better to figure out, for each millisecond, what is the most important thing to see - than it is to accept just not really seeing anything in particular. This is the art of paying attention. Imagine, for every string you will shoot - from the buzzer to back in the holster. At each moment: What will you see in particular, and what will you just be keeping track of? Applying this filter doesn't leave anything out. I can tell you for sure that you can learn to see the sights in incredible detail (when needed), while still keeping track of the upcoming targets.

be

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I had a great practice session Tuesday. I'm still working on seeing. I seen more while shooting Tuesday than I have ever seen. I was able to call shots better than ever. I could tell whether the shot went high, left, right or wherever. I could tell a C hit from a A hit. I never attempted to go fast but just see every shot. I ran great times with great pts. More importantly I did it consistently. I firmly believe the consistency came from running a mental program.

Another thing I was able to figure out was that when I just worry about seeing everything else takes care of itself. I had already learned that when I see the shooting takes care of itself but on stages that require running I really rush my shots and don't see very well. I was able to just shoot and never once thought about how fast I must move to try to get to the end of the stage. When I see the target I would just shoot, then go to the next target then repeat.

Seeing and just shooting controlled my movements. This has never sunk in until Tuesday. I knew that seeing controls your shooting(basically when you squeeze the trigger from your visual inputs) but never realized how much seeing and just shooting takes care of your movements. I think this happens at a subconcious level. You see what you need to see, you squeeze the trigger and go to the next target taking your body with you as if its a seperate enitity, it just follows behind. I was making my body control my shooting before(thinking I had to run fast through the stage made me shoot fast regardless of the sights).

I think this is just an intial step to understanding this vision thing but feel I'm on the right track.

Still tons of work to do but its coming along.

Flyin40

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You see what you need to see, you squeeze the trigger and go to the next target taking your body with you as if its a seperate enitity, it just follows behind.

Did Brian just change his name to Flying 40 ??? :lol:

That actually sounded ALOT like Brian talking ................ "Float the gun" kinda stuff.

If you picture a set of floating eyeballs, and a gun ................ moving through the course of fire, correcting what needs correcting ............ that's really all you need in this game ! ;)

Great post John! B)

***** WARNING THREAD HIJACK *******

funeyeballcostume8qh.jpg

:ph34r::ph34r::ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

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Two weeks ago I was practicing my transitions. I had three targets at 10 yards away with 5 yards between them. I was hitting in the low .50's consistently, really wanted to get into the .40s, I was trying to go faster and started missing. I sat back and realized that I was following the sights all the way across the targets. I knew that I should be snapping my eyes to the spot on the target that I wanted to hit, I just wasn't applying it. The next run I forced myself to slow down and focus on the eye snap, .43, .42 and all A's. What felt slower, was much faster and more accurate. While I didn't quite understand exactly what happened, I knew it was better. I'm happy to see this thread, as it has helped me to understand what happened. Now, I just need to apply this all the time.

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I was doing some practicing with some fellows last week. The drill was draw, two shots, transition, two shots. The eye snap was critical but the distance was about 8yrds to the target and about 5 yards between targets.

I started out around 1.9 seconds. After a few tries, it was down in the 1.7 seconds range. A few more and it was down in the 1.5-1.6 range.

But the cool part was they were all As. I would not fire until my sight picture dictated it.

I had previously spent a lot of rounds on shooting, eye snap and shooting. I had laid off that drill for a while. I was working on a lot of accuracy drills for a few months. Then came back to this drill to up the speed.

My idea was to take a good foundation, sight picture-trigger pull, of shooting accurately at 15yrd-25yrds then try to speed it up. But I did not want to start any bad habits so I went closer to the target to ensure good technique. I wll start out about the same distance for the next two times or so, then start moving away from the targets.

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How fast can you find the next target, as soon as you saw enough of the sights to call the shot? How fast can you find the sights, as soon as you've found the next target?

Keep your eyes moving,

be

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i notice that if you focus on just one target, when i snap my vision on the next target, the gun doesnt stop to the next A zone. but if i see all the target, when i snap my vision on the next target the gun stops on the next A zone!! amazing of what seeing your surrounding can do.

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Sand,

Read Brian's post (#14).

You want to snap you eyes to find the next target as soon as you have called the shot onthe target you are on.

If you haven't got the shot calling thing down yet, then go no further. Make that the one goal of all yur practice...until shot calling is old hat to you.

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My eyes were stopping at the high center A zone. All rounds but a couple were high center A zone.

I found the target, then my gun got there. Stopping at high center. The neat parts were the splits between targets showed the most improvement. At first my eyes were slow to leave after the last shot but that sped up. Then I felt the time between when the gun arrived and I pressed the trigger was getting shorter.

My recognizing the calling of the shot was quicker and my pulling of the trigger after recognizing the sight picture was decreasing.

It was a pretty cool feeling. It was like I did not want to stop. I generally load only one mag. The requirement to go back and load another mag helps the gun cool off. The cool part was I never got out of the flow even after stopping and reloading five or six times.

I really wanted to ingrain the entire experience into my brain.

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Nice post Flyin40. You're touching on some cool stuff. With some more practice you'll know (for sure) that your imagination is your only limitation.

When you "see everything" - it's like you're watching a movie. But it's not just a two dimensional movie. It's somewhat two dimensional in that you're aware of everything that is happening between the left and right edges of your vision. And it's three dimensional in that you're focus is sliding quickly and smoothly from each critical "place-time" to the next.

You'll perform better if you're always seeing something clearly. So it's better to figure out, for each millisecond, what is the most important thing to see - than it is to accept just not really seeing anything in particular. This is the art of paying attention. Imagine, for every string you will shoot - from the buzzer to back in the holster. At each moment: What will you see in particular, and what will you just be keeping track of? Applying this filter doesn't leave anything out. I can tell you for sure that you can learn to see the sights in incredible detail (when needed), while still keeping track of the upcoming targets.

be

Moving your body faster on moving stages is critical to controlling your shooting. You work on speeding up our draws, transitions, and reload times. But are you paying attention to training your body to move faster? While the shooting is everything, it is not. On stages requiring movement, you have the efficiency of setups and natural body movement, aka speed. You should train for this as well and incorporate how fast you want to move through the stage into your visualization. Get where you need to go on the stage as fast and efficiently as you can, and you can then shoot your speed and feel more comfortable. It includes increasing your atheletic performance. But you are definitely right-eyes working for you is the key. Take care!

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Well I have be really working on seeing a I think it came together at Area 7. I had some dumbass mistakes but as far as seeing the target I did well. I really used the eye snap target spot. So heres the results

Total match points 1130

I shot 1052 pts on the stages or about 93% of pts

Heres where it gets ugly, I had 50pts in penalties. I had one failure to engage and 2 mikes on one target :blink::o So if I subtract the 50 in penalties I'm still at 89% of pts.

Stage 1 I had a mike. I had 12 A's and 3 C's. I know I didn't miss the target and had the RO check every bullet hole which is something I never do. I couldn't get it but I know I shot an A. All 3 C hits on the other targets were within an inch of the A zone. I can still remember seeing all the shots but thats how it goes sometimes.

The other mike was on stage 10 on the static. I called the shot high and right in the Azone on the edge of the painted hardcover on the target. I ended up with a Mike, it was about 1/4" into the black.

I think I finally broke myself of this speed mentality.

TMK,

Your dead on. I was looking at the video seen how slow I moved from spot to spot. I was so worried about visual inputs that I didn't attack the stages from spot to spot. But thats ok, I'm at the point where my focus on accuracy is more important.

Next set of things I'll be working on

1. Stage breakdown, at Area 7 I had a failure to engage and on 2 other stages I'm almost ran by other targets, had to step back to engage them. This is 100% mental.

2. Stage movement, target to target movement. Being smooth but also being aggressive. Just don't move nice and easy to the next target, snap the gun to the next target. That is probably one thing I seen the top guys do at the match. They really attacked the targets.

Flyin40

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Well I have be really working on seeing a I think it came together at Area 7. I had some dumbass mistakes but as far as seeing the target I did well. I really used the eye snap target spot. So heres the results

Total match points 1130

I shot 1052 pts on the stages or about 93% of pts

Heres where it gets ugly, I had 50pts in penalties. I had one failure to engage and 2 mikes on one target :blink::o So if I subtract the 50 in penalties I'm still at 89% of pts.

Stage 1 I had a mike. I had 12 A's and 3 C's. I know I didn't miss the target and had the RO check every bullet hole which is something I never do. I couldn't get it but I know I shot an A. All 3 C hits on the other targets were within an inch of the A zone. I can still remember seeing all the shots but thats how it goes sometimes.

The other mike was on stage 10 on the static. I called the shot high and right in the Azone on the edge of the painted hardcover on the target. I ended up with a Mike, it was about 1/4" into the black.

I think I finally broke myself of this speed mentality.

TMK,

Your dead on. I was looking at the video seen how slow I moved from spot to spot. I was so worried about visual inputs that I didn't attack the stages from spot to spot. But thats ok, I'm at the point where my focus on accuracy is more important.

Next set of things I'll be working on

1. Stage breakdown, at Area 7 I had a failure to engage and on 2 other stages I'm almost ran by other targets, had to step back to engage them. This is 100% mental.

2. Stage movement, target to target movement. Being smooth but also being aggressive. Just don't move nice and easy to the next target, snap the gun to the next target. That is probably one thing I seen the top guys do at the match. They really attacked the targets.

Flyin40

Two things to consider:

-Most folks will visualize the order of their targets and reloads, but not how they want to execute them. Once I have decided my stage strategy and visualize my sight pictures, etc. I then visualize how I want to execute them. That being said, I visualize being explosive into certain movements and reloads while picturing myself being smooth at the same time. As far as attacking the targets in transitions, that for some people is, self included, is a matter of isolating the transitions using timers. No draw stroke, no reloads, just pure isolation of making each transition faster. I beleive it is written, "You can only shoot as fast as you practice shooting", this means attacking the transitions as well.

-Also, think of food as a tool. I have found, and I do this routinely, if I carb up with complex carbs and hydrate the night before any match and eat and drink the right foods out of a cooler that I carry with me throughout the match, I have good and consistent matches. Your mind needs to be properly fueled to work at it's optimum performance. Don't neglect this aspect. It is paramount. We all want to eat an elephant in one meal, but this practical shooting is a journey. Good luck! TK

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  • 1 year later...

Its been 2 yrs since I posted this topic. I actually think I have finally grasp the seeing part. I still have alot to learn. Its been a long road but it has come full circle after reading this thread. In my daily dryfire routine one of the things I work on is snapping my eyes to the next target.

Seeing means alot more now that it did 2 yrs ago. Everything is slower and calmer now. I don't feel the need to rush as I did before. The need to "try" to go fast is long gone.

Flyin

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Instead of letting go of the speed (<<<speed focus), think in terms of seeing what you need to see. Seeing more than you need to see. Seeing what all there really is to see.

It's hard to change an action when your focus is on 'not doing the negative'. Replace the negative with the thought of the positive action that you want to accomplish.

Si ?

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Instead of letting go of the speed (<<<speed focus), think in terms of seeing what you need to see. Seeing more than you need to see. Seeing what all there really is to see.

It's hard to change an action when your focus is on 'not doing the negative'. Replace the negative with the thought of the positive action that you want to accomplish.

Si ?

Although not easy to do - you might be surprised at what happens if do that - totally.

One of my favorite Krishnamurti quotes is "Time is the psychological enemy of man." Which is doubly true for the IPSC shooter.

be

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