35 Doubled Once

[kevin c]

G35 with less than 5000 rounds through it. Polished internals, but not aggressively. Stock striker with reduced power spring. Ralph's radiused plunger, but the rest of the kit was not in the gun because I'm taking the gun to a big USPSA match and didn't want to run the admittedly small risk of getting dinged on "external mods".

The gun doubled once, and once only, on a strong hand only drill. I haven't been able to make it double since, and had not ever had it happen to me before with any gun.

The gun had been cleaned before, but I haven't broken down the top end for a couple thousand rounds.

What do all y'all think? Me or the gun?

Kevin C

[Flexmoney]

If it is still dirty, you ought to be able to see the "witness marks" on the striker tang...that would give some indication of how much engagement the trigger bar has with the striker tang.

If you had the orange (half) cover plate, you could see this engagement easily. Without it, you can get an idea of it with a good flashlight and a careful eye.

You the gun to double, it would probably have to have very little engagement.

[Viggen]

You haven't cleaned in a couple of thousand rounds?

Clean the darn thing. Contrary to popular myth, the Glock does need cleaning.

After it's clean then you can start to figure out if it was something else.

[kevin c]

I do clean it. I just haven't detailed the slide assembly in a couple thousand rounds.

I do see the "witness marks" there on the tang of the striker. Engagement is 50 thousandths.

I now see some very fine brass particles around the back of the slide, stuck in that coppery lubricant put on by Glock. Could loose brass particles have fouled the engagement of the striker? So perhaps you're right, Viggen.

I'll detail the top end, and see what happens.

I guess I'm also asking how the gun might double while fired SHO. Trigger bounce, perhaps?

Kevin C

[Flexmoney]

trigger bounce could be possible

[kevin c]

Does the engagement sound OK? 50 thousandths looks like plenty to me.

Edited May 31, 2006 by kevin c

[SRT Driver]

Compare the trigger bar you received in the kit to the original bar. Glock has a habit of changing these.

Look for a step in the front of the cruciform (where the radius turns down..the part where the trigger spring hole is located). Glock changed these in the Gxx series.

This made a difference in mine.

[the duck of death]

*QUOTE*

Engagement is 50 thousandths.

I have a orange cover plate and was surprised at the scant striker/sear engagement. The 50 thousandths is OK. Since it hasn't happened again I'd agree with Flex on the trigger bounce.

----------UNLESS---------------

The double was machine gun fast. If so you have a problem 'cause with one hand you can't pull the trigger fast enough to get the MG effect(sound).

[norbs007]

I had an old frame Glock 22 that went full auto on me before. I had about 7 or 9 rounds in the mag which got emptied when it happened (there in Richmond too). It can be repeated by pulling the trigger without letting it reset all the way. Sent it back to Glock and they replaced all the internal parts.

[nphd2000]

This is an interesting topic for me. I'm having the same problem with my G35 open gun. Of course the trigger parts are polished, reshaped all the springs have been lightened, you know, the works. It ran great for about 5 or 6 hundred rounds then I was practicing at the range and it happened, a double, but I noticed I was slow on letting the trigger re-set. It didn't happen for about another 50 rounds then it happened again. That night I read this post and figured let me clean the gun and see what happens. The double didn't seem "machine gun" fast but pretty fast.

Well cleaning didn't help, it doubles about every 10 rounds or so now. It never went auto, but just in case I only loaded 3 or 4 rounds at a time. If I trigger slap it doesn't seem to double. I am going to try a new striker, if that doesn't cure it I'll replace the trigger with a stock one to see if that stops it. (Damn that trigger had a clean crisp break though )

We'll see what happens tomorrow.

[Harmon]

trigger bounce or as another shooter called it "STATIC FIRE"

i had it happen once and the gun fired so fast the Pocket pro Timer did not register the second shot...

[nphd2000]

Well, I changed the striker and my doubling problem has stopped. The striker "tang" that engages the top of the trigger bar was a smidge longer. I'll be shooting it in a match this weekend to see if the problem is truly solved.

[hf219]

I JUST SHOT A STEEL MATCH YESTERDAY. I WAS SHOOTING A PLATE RACK AND IN THE MIDDLE OF A STRING OF FIRE I HAD TWO DOUBLE SHOT BURSTS. I SPECIFICALLY RECALL FEELING THE TRIGGER RESET AND I THINK I DIAGNOSED THE ISSUE. AFTER OF COURSE MYSELF, I HAD THREE GLOCK ARMORERS INSPECT MY G35 FOR FUNCTION AND ORPART MALFUNCTION OR BREAKAGE. FUNCTION WAS FINE WHILE DRY FIRING AND ALL PARTS INSPECTED TO BE GOOD. I SPECIFICALLY RECALL FEELING THE TRIGGER RESET, I BELIEVE THE PROBLEM OCCURED WHEN TRYING TO RESET AND THEN QUICKLY PREP THE TRIGGER. I THINK THE PROBLEM WAS SHORT STROKING THE TRIGGER AND WITH SUCH A LIGHT TRIGGER BREAK IT WAS EASY ENOUGH TO GET A QUICK DOUBLE. BY THE WAY I PURCHASED AN RS TRIGGER KIT AND HAD A SIMILIAR PROBLEM WHILE DRY FIRING THE GUN BEFORE A SINGLE ROUND WENT THROUGH IT. THE GUN WOULD FIRE THE STRIKER AS I WAS RESETTING THE TRIGGER. AFTER SOME LENGTHY DISCUSSIONS, I FOUND THE CULPRIT TO BE THE STRIKER. A FREIND HAD GIVEN ME A DIFFERENT STRIKER TO TRY AND FOR SOME REASON THE GROOVE THAT THE SAFETY PLUNGER RIDES ALONG HAD SOME PEENING OVER TOWARDS THE REAR OF THE SLOT OF THE STRIKER. IT WAS ALMOST UNNOTICEABLE UNTIL CLOSER INSPETION COMPARED TO THE STOCK STRIKER REVEALED THE EXCESSIVE WEAR. ONCE I CHANGED OUT THE STRIKER I HAD NO FURTHER PROBLEMS UNTIL YESTERDAY. IT (THE DOUBLE SHOT) ONLY OCCURED TWICE DURING THAT STRING OF FIRE AND DID NOT REOCCUR AGAIN THE REST OF THE DAY. I DID SHOOT TWO MATCHES THAT DAY AND PUT THROUGH MAYBE ANOTHER 200 ROUNDS THROUGH THE GUN. THE ONLY THING I CAN ATTRIBUTE THIS TOO, WAS THAT I WAS SHOOTING A PLATE RACK TRYING TO GO FAST AND SHORT STROKED THE TRIGGER AND APPLIED TOO MUCH PRESSURE WHILE REPREPPING THE TRIGGER. IT DOES SEEM HARD TO IMAGINE THAT ONE COULD FIRE OFF A DOUBLE THAT QUICK. I REPLAY THE SCENARIO OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND IT DEFINATELY DID NOT FEEL LIKE A MALFUNCTION AS IT DID MORE FEEL LIKE A VERY LIGHT TRIGGER BREAK. THEN AGAIN I GUESS IF IT WASNT SO LIGHT THIS PROBLEM MIGHT NOT BE SO APPARENT. CHECK THE STRIKER ALONG THE SAFETY PLUNGER GROOVE FOR EXCESSIVE WEAR TOWARDS THE REAR OF THE GROOVE (AWAY FROM THE STRIKER TIP). YOU MIGHT FIND A PROBLEM THERE.

[John F]

I do clean it. I just haven't detailed the slide assembly in a couple thousand rounds.

I do see the "witness marks" there on the tang of the striker. Engagement is 50 thousandths.

I now see some very fine brass particles around the back of the slide, stuck in that coppery lubricant put on by Glock. Could loose brass particles have fouled the engagement of the striker? So perhaps you're right, Viggen.

I'll detail the top end, and see what happens.

I guess I'm also asking how the gun might double while fired SHO. Trigger bounce, perhaps?

Kevin C

If you have fired it that many times and still have the copper colored anti sieze gunk you are not cleaning it well enough. That should all be gone within the first couple hundred rounds as it is meant to keep the gun from siezing not a lubricant. With all that residue in the gun you are filling spots and lowering the tolerences. It could have been you that caused the double tap but the fact that it was so easy to do is more likely to have occured because of a dirty gun.

[skeeter]

ok guys, my glock went full auto at my last 3 gun match.

here's what i've done to it.

1. light striker spring

2. cut the hook of the striker from the side so i had less bearing surface. not the angle in which the striker hits the trigger bar.

3.drilled a new hole for the trigger return spring plus extra power trigger return spring

4. put a per travel and over travel screws in the ejector houseing

5. polished everything bright

now when i set the per travel i set it so the trigger safty still engaged and the over travel set tight with very little movement.

at the first stage the gun gave a nice 4 shot burst. took my dnf and went to the safe area and took the per travel all the way out. at the next stage got another nice 4 or 5 shot burst.( buy the way to pull the trigger once and get 4 hits on a target is cool) took another dnf. then because we were waiting for the next stage we played with it try to figure out what went wrong. it seemed that if i held the gun lite i'd get single shots but when i held the gun real tight i get long bursts.no one seemed to have an answer. so i went back to the safe area and put all the sock parts back in. gun worked fine duh!

well i guess what i want to know is can an over travel stop cause this? i don't see how but who knows. what about the trigger spring and trigger bar redrilled? agian i don't see how. what about the the cut striker? i'd real like to get all this figured out as i had a real super sweet 2 1/4 pound trigger pull. i could live with out the per travel but i really like the over travel.

help me please!

[norbs007]

It would be nice to have a full auto Glock, don't you think It's possible, like I said my G22 goes full when I pull the trigger just right after it resets and without letting it go all the way forward. I should have kept that gun .

[Flexmoney]

Skeeter,

When I get on my soapbox and talk about glock trigger work, I always say that you can do any two of the three trigger mods listed below, but never all three at once. I just don't trust it.

- Light striker spring

- relocate hole for trigger return spring

- extra power trigger return spring.

Any combo of two of those, but not all three.

That said, you probably need a bit more over-travel. (Which sure beats the alternative.)

[scooterj]

My 34 will double when it gets dirty. Clean it and all is well. It does have after-market parts in it.

[38supPat]

Once upon a time I could get just about any Glock to burst, there is a sweet spot in the trigger that if you find it, will give you some nice runs of 4 to 5 rounds. I though Glock had worked on this to make it harder to do...but apparantly not...lol

[skeeter]

Skeeter,

When I get on my soapbox and talk about glock trigger work, I always say that you can do any two of the three trigger mods listed below, but never all three at once. I just don't trust it.

- Light striker spring

- relocate hole for trigger return spring

- extra power trigger return spring.

Any combo of two of those, but not all three.

That said, you probably need a bit more over-travel. (Which sure beats the alternative.)

sorry it took me a while to get back. but flex are you saying that these 3 mods can pull the trigger for you? i guess i could see it because the trigger was really lite. and why the over travel.

[Flexmoney]

What I noticed, with all three of those mods done, is that the trigger has trouble resetting. The trigger bar's left wing doesn't want to make it up the hump of the safety ramp.

If it were to partially reset, then I could see a possibility for doubling.

But, I still think you issues is more likely related to not enough over-travel. Dial some in and see if that helps.

Have you bent the sear tab on the back of the trigger bar at all? Ever? The part that actually contacts the tang of the striker? Have you stoned that part? Polished it?

Could your modified tang be slipping off to the side at all?

[skeeter]

no i haven't bent at all. i have polished with a felt wad on a drill. i don't know if the tang is slipping off or not i'll take this out for good as i didn't feel much or any differnce when i did this. and i'll back off the over travel to see what happens.

off the 3 mods which one would you loss if you had to? i'm leaning toward the Xpower trigger return spring.

[Flexmoney]

off the 3 mods which one would you loss if you had to? i'm leaning toward the Xpower trigger return spring.

You can change the feel a lot by working the different combinations of two out of those three. It is so easy to do, I'd suggest sitting down and trying them all out...see what you like.

(For "carry gunners" I always suggest keeping the stock striker spring, and going with the other two mods. But, we gamers get to tweak more to our personal preference.)

[SA Friday]

This may or may not play into the equasion, but here it is. Weight (energy transfer) is dristributed through solid mass the same way with all solids, at a 45% angle. That's why you get conical fractures in glass (and bone...cool CSI stuff) when penetrated. This is also why they add wood under really heavy vehicles on military aircraft. The wood is called shoring and is used to distribute the weight over a larger surface area, protecting the aluminum floor and braces from damage.

Cutting that extra material off the striker tang depleats the amount of mass capable of supporting a load. So, the left over tang is actually having to support more load over the period of times used even though your contact surface may have not changed. This equals faster wear, a LOT faster. Try a striker with an unchanged tang and see what happens. It's possible the tang has worn down over time (not a bunch, but enough to be slipping off the "sear"). The wear might not be noticable depending on just how much work was done on the tang.

With that said, I must admit, Flex IS usually right.

I usually polish the end of the trigger bar that contacts the tang (does it really constitute a 'sear'?), but leave the tang itself alone. It gets pretty smooth from regular firing as it is.

[skeeter]

up date. it seems that the over travel was the problem. i had it set so close that it was right at the sweet spot and under recoil was firing the gun. backed it off a little more and all is good agian.