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38superman

You Have Five Minutes To Look Over The Stage

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During a recent match I was breaking down a stage when I was chastised by one of my fellow shooters for monopolizing the stage during the walkthrough.

I was so engrossed in what I was doing that I was unaware of being in anyone's way.

It was certainly not my intent to display bad manners and if I did so I humbly apologize.

In the normal course of things, the instructions are read and the whole squad crawls over the stage (and each other) like an army of ants.

A line generally forms at the start position and members rotate through.

This is an informal operation and usually becomes something of a mob scene.

It can be a bit of a nuisance but everyone seems to cope with it.

There were 14 people in my squad.

I see no practical way to have only one shooter at a time inspecting a stage.

With five minutes to look it over, that equates to 21 seconds per shooter.

I can't shoot a 34 round field course in 21 seconds, much less break it down.

A memory course with as many as 16 targets, shots through small ports, some hidden behind barriers, many visible from multiple shooting positions cannot be reconciled in less time than it takes to shoot it.

At least not by me.

I know that a lot of folks will take a little extra time looking things over during trips down range to paste and set steel.

However, the RO's seem to be cracking down on that and only want to allow the on deck shooter to have access.

I have given this a lot of thought since them and I must confess I am at a loss as to how to handle it.

The only answer I have found so far is to simply stay away from any match that is subject to having more than about 8-10 shooters on a squad.

Tls

Edited by tlshores

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The only possible solution is to arrive early and scope out the stages before the match begins.

At a World Shoot (with squads of 20 and a 5 minute walk-through) this becomes essential.

I think Saul Kirsch mentions some of this in one of his books

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Pet Peeve: Please do not walk back up the main aisle when you are done with your walkthru unless absolutely necessary. If you can walk up the sides of the stage you can stay out of the way of everyone else trying to do a walkthru.

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I try to get to major matches the day before to check out the stages (Note: the "fairness" of allowing this was debated ad nauseum in another thread. Go there if you have an opinion on this). This allows me to only have to "review" the stage on match day. Occasionally this is not possible or allowed (2005 Area 6, for example). Then, you do the best you can during the five minutes and while pasting.

To answer your question more directly, the get-in-line-and-follow-the-leader method seems to be the best we are left with. This doesn't allow you to take a couple of steps back from a position and re-try it during the five minutes and woe to the person who attempts to walk-through using a significantly different pattern than "the pack". Having a lefty in the squad really complicates things.

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arrive early and scope out the stages before the match begins.

We always try to get to a match the day before so there's plenty of time to think all the stages over, time swingers, etc.

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Pet Peeve: Please do not walk back up the main aisle when you are done with your walkthru unless absolutely necessary. If you can walk up the sides of the stage you can stay out of the way of everyone else trying to do a walkthru.

+1

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The only possible solution is to arrive early and scope out the stages before the match begins.

At a World Shoot (with squads of 20 and a 5 minute walk-through) this becomes essential.

I think Saul Kirsch mentions some of this in one of his books

That's a good idea but not always possible, especially for those that travel afar.

The RO's generally shoot on Friday.

I really can't afford the time to come in on Thursday for a Sat-Sun match.

You could allow more than five minutes, but that would cause the match to drag on too long.

You could limit the size of the squads but that would limit the number of people that can participate.

Maybe you could give less time for the speed shoots (I really don't need 5 minutes to look at El Prez) and longer times for the complex stages.

I don't see any easy answer for this one.

Oh, yeah... I'm a lefty too.

It's like having a reverse commute in the same lane.

Tls

Edited by tlshores

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Last year was my first year to Nationals and I shot on the revolver squad. 20 shooters.

The thing I thought worked real well was that we established our shooting order on the first stage and one of our hard-working squad mates kept us in order for the whole match. We just rotated the first shooter on any current stage to the bottom and kept the sequence going.

This meant we always knew who was up first, second, ... nineteenth... and when it was time to review the stage and see movers and dirt dive we did a pretty good job of getting the first three or four guys the time they needed to shoot the stage. Mister 12 or 15 would get to see other shooters shoot and also get to do additional dirt dives as their turns got closer.

It sure avoids the rush of the lottery system where all 20 shooters are trying to be prepared to be the first shooter on every stage.

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Tony,

Arrive early, at least to review the stages after the ROs shoot.

Another trick is to find a better shooter on your squad and ask him or her during your walkthrough what a good plans is.

If you get really lucky, find a better shooter that has already shot the stage to give you a plan.

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Depressing but true; to compete at the very top levels, often you have to scope out complicated stages in advance, because the 5 minutes just isn't going to do it. There are a few tricks beyond showing up the day before (early morning, late night, lunch breaks), but it's still a pain.

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Depressing but true; to compete at the very top levels, often you have to scope out complicated stages in advance, because the 5 minutes just isn't going to do it.

It's getting to be like in grade school, when you got to take an "open book" test. What did your test score mean when you were finished?

Isn't part of the game quick analysis, quick decision and quick shot? The game gets dull when advantage triumphs over skill. Just post a stage diagram and get to shooting. I swear if a stage only consisted of a " Bill Drill", when the range clear was given 14 guys would be trying to crowd into the shooters box to "air gun" the stage. :ph34r: I hate air gunners.

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Isn't part of the game quick analysis, quick decision and quick shot?

I'm not so sure about this. I think best analysis and best decision is what I'm after. I'm not saying I need an hour on each stage to achieve this, but I'm pretty sure I need more than 5 minutes while elbowing 14 other shooters on at least some stages.

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I recall an individual on my squad at Area 2 that was so aggressive during the 5 minute walkthrough that he was elbowing and pushing people. Rather than resort to violence, we chose a more childish approach like throwing rocks at him while he was in the safe area, filling his shoes with dirt when he left them by my range bag and peeling out in the parking lot and spraying him with dirt while he had his suitcase open.

I thought it was appropriate at the time since I lost count at how many times he jumped in front of me or elbowed me while I was trying to walkthrough the stage. I kind of felt bad but then I think of the fact that I drove 16 hours both ways and all the money spent....frustrating, just frustrating. The only hope at resolving this issue is pray that you have a good squad.

Edited by GeneralChang

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Another trick is to find a better shooter on your squad and ask him or her during your walkthrough what a good plans is.

Be careful there. Your walk-thru is their walk-thru too. Make sure they aren't still trying to figure things out before you hit them up with the questions. ;)

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Don't forget to be a grand master taper! If you can, get out and tape after every shooter. Just tape a different portion of the stage and look for what you usually look for in a walk through. If you have a cool squad, they will allow a bit more time for the first shooter.

The point is, though, it's 5 min for everyone. Deal with it... ;)

Later,

Chuck

Gen Chang: Damn sorry to hear that. A2 was tough enough without buttheads like that. I bet if the guy lost a mag on each stage, he would eventually have to quit :rolleyes: .

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Isn't part of the game quick analysis, quick decision and quick shot? The game gets dull when advantage triumphs over skill. Just post a stage diagram and get to shooting. I swear if a stage only consisted of a " Bill Drill", when the range clear was given 14 guys would be trying to crowd into the shooters box to "air gun" the stage. :ph34r: I hate air gunners.

I'd like you in my squad, more walk through time for me :D

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This is another reason to ban Singlestack, Limited 10, Production and Revolver divisions....it takes too much extra time to plan those reloads.

Feels good to really contribute to the forum! :P

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I hate air gunners.

:o

Man, are you in the wrong sport or what?

I agree, what a profound thing to say. :huh:

This sport wouldn't be as fun without airgunning.

Edited by GeneralChang

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There are a few things that can save time and organize a squad (large or small) to make the best use of the five minutes and allow the squad to run VERY smoothly through a match.

1. Have a shooting order and USE it for each stage. Normally the order is set on the first stage and you can rotate the shooters down the order so everone KNOWS when they are up (even several stages away)

2. Form a walk through line (conga) at the begining of the stage IN YOUR SHOOTING ORDER. This allows those who are up first see the stage first (don't be a hog if your at the bottom of the order)

3. When finished walking the stage reform to the rear of the line by going around the outside perimeter stay out of the free fire zones if possible and if not stay out of everyones way as you return to the beginning if you need to re-walk the stage.

4. As you finish shooting a stage stay out of the on deck shooters way (this goes for pasters and the shooter that has just finished) he/she may be doing a final prep.

5. For a larger match get there the day before and watch the stages, make notes in the match book/stage diagrams (I like to shoot vids to review before a big match) so suprises are minimized.

Just a few hints :D

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Depressing but true; to compete at the very top levels, often you have to scope out complicated stages in advance, because the 5 minutes just isn't going to do it.

It's getting to be like in grade school, when you got to take an "open book" test. What did your test score mean when you were finished?

Isn't part of the game quick analysis, quick decision and quick shot? The game gets dull when advantage triumphs over skill. Just post a stage diagram and get to shooting. I swear if a stage only consisted of a " Bill Drill", when the range clear was given 14 guys would be trying to crowd into the shooters box to "air gun" the stage. :ph34r: I hate air gunners.

<_< you Hate? air gunners

Edited by AlamoShooter

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This is another reason to ban Singlestack, Limited 10, Production and Revolver divisions....it takes too much extra time to plan those reloads.

I can tell you for certain I spend more time looking at a stage for strategy when I'm shooting Open vs. L-10 - simply many more options with that much ammo in the gun. The low capacity divisions pretty much reload after every 8-10 rounds, and it's usually pretty obvious where the reloads go vs. the stage, so... Rarely have a seen a stage shooting L-10 where there was more than one competitive way to tackle it....

Oh, but you were being tongue-in-cheek, right??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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5. For a larger match get there the day before and watch the stages, make notes in the match book/stage diagrams (I like to shoot vids to review before a big match) so suprises are minimized.

Just a few hints :D

Crusher,

I forget now where it happened but I heard that some folks got DQ'ed at a major match for taping shooters the day before they were supposed to shoot. Videos of empty stages should be ok but you might want to ask first.

Later,

chuck

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Oh, yeah... I'm a lefty too.

It's like having a reverse commute in the same lane.

Tls

I'm a lefty and ran into this at Area 6 on my squad. There were several stages that I wasn't able to hardly get a look at because all the righties went left and were in line to come right as they airgunned. I came the day before so I really wasn't worried about it except for one stage. When I was up I had to wait for the guns airgunning to clear out so I could go to the right and come back across the stage left. Well the squad decided to just past me up since I wasn't going. They never even realized why I was waiting. After a couple stages of this I finally had to say something to the squad about cutting me off. It was one of the stages I was still working out and RO announced 1min left and I didn't even get a walk through yet. It was noone intention to not let me through, they just didn't realize it. I did have stop the squad and tell them all to wait so I could get atleast 1 walk through. They all apologized, and of course I did to for being overly assertive about being able to get a walk through. I kinda of came across harshly. I just said I haven't been able to get a walkthrough for the last 3 stages because I wasn't trying to run anyone over. The squad was great about it and from then on made sure I had a clear walkthrough. Bunch of nice guys.

For lefties it mostly applies to stages where you run across the stage at 180degrees. Being lefty I want to start to the right if at all possible so any reloads are facing downrange and not have to worry about a DQ for the 180. Most stage that require you to run downrange really isn't a problem.

Flyin40

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