rhgunguy Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I was shooting a stage where half the target was blacked. I was shooting my CZ-75 and the DA pull pushed my first round into the black. Noting this I fired my first SA shot into the A and then a "make-up shot" into the A. After I had finished the other stages one of the guys that has been around awhile told me to just bury that first shot into the ground while I am drawing. That seems to me like it could be inturpreted as a ND. Granted, I realy shouldn't need all 10 rounds in a classifier but in a long string it could help. Also on a tangent, we shoot 3 stages a month. I usualy shoot the classifier first. On the next stage is it legal for me to have 10 rounds in the mag and one in the chamber? Does that violate the 10 round rule for production? I am sure this has been covered somewhere but I could not think of what to search for. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 After I had finished the other stages one of the guys that has been around awhile told me to just bury that first shot into the ground while I am drawing. That seems to me like it could be inturpreted as a ND. Granted, I realy shouldn't need all 10 rounds in a classifier but in a long string it could help. Anyone who would advise burying one into the ground while drawing is a bozo of the first degree and should be avoided like the plague in the future. Hopefully what this shooter actually said/meant was to burn the round into the safety berm "behind" the targets and not into the "ground" (which is still a waste of time and bad form), because if he is actually advocating doing it into the ground during the draw he needs to hit with the adjustment stick upside the you-know-what, real hard and real fast! That said, I started a long time ago with a SIG P-226 and learned to deal with the DA first shot in several ways none of which is a safety violation. Method 1 is to practice drawing to a small steel plate (6-8") at 20-25 yards until you can hit it 100% of the time ;-) Method 2 is to always take the DA shot into the easiest or most open target available. Method 3 is to carefully thumb-cock the hammer using the weak hand prior to getting your grip. Method 1 is the best way to deal with this. Method 2 is a useful adjunct that will increase your probablility of first round A's when the choice of an easier target is available. Method 3 will help in a situation where the only shots available right from the draw require extreme precision such as a long distance standards or an upper A/B at 20+ yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 (edited) I was shooting a stage where half the target was blacked. I was shooting my CZ-75 and the DA pull pushed my first round into the black. Noting this I fired my first SA shot into the A and then a "make-up shot" into the A. After I had finished the other stages one of the guys that has been around awhile told me to just bury that first shot into the ground while I am drawing. That seems to me like it could be inturpreted as a ND. Granted, I realy shouldn't need all 10 rounds in a classifier but in a long string it could help.Also on a tangent, we shoot 3 stages a month. I usualy shoot the classifier first. On the next stage is it legal for me to have 10 rounds in the mag and one in the chamber? Does that violate the 10 round rule for production? I am sure this has been covered somewhere but I could not think of what to search for. Thanks in advance. I have just started with a 75 and am struggling with the first shot also. It is very different from a 1911. I found that paying just a hair more attention to that first shot should clear things up for you. In my first couple matches, I pretty much blew each one! The last match of 7 stages, I had trouble on 2. I could not tell you what I did wrong, but I could tell you that I did come away not remembering the sight picture that I had on the first shot! Practice! After a couple hundred rounds of DA shooting, you should be able to see what is going on. Also, do a search around the forums for this subject. Your comment about a classifier is bothersome. Remember that most of them are Virginia count. So, you dump a round, you dump 10 points! Extra shot penalty! And if you hit a target, you get the extra hit penalty! Rules question: Yes, it is covered in the rule book! in US appendix D9 9 Maximum ammunition capacity Yes, 10 rounds loaded maximum in any magazine after the start signal. Later, Chuck Edited April 21, 2006 by ChuckS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Stupid, silly idea to dump the first round. Look at the time wasted. Depending on your ability you are throwing away between .22 and .35 seconds. Two or three tenths or even a bit more is a lot of time AND you are throwing away a round. Writers with a lack of ability and lack of knowledge have presented a lot of bad information about the DA first shot. All it takes is practice. And these days, by choice, I usually shoot a CZ75 in Production rather than a 1911 where I have to take off the safety. I have come to like the DA first shot. It's practice that matters. And until you get the practice in just take an extra tenth or two to make that first accurate shot. Don't listen to the silly duck who suggested suggested dumping the first shot. He has been readiing too many gun rags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 As they said, that is a dumb idea and a waste of time to dump the first round. How about just aim a little harder and make the DA first shot go where it needs to go? It takes practice, lots and lots of practice. I don't even know or think about the first shot much anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbadaboom Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 He would probably suggest that revolver shooters dump their first 6 rounds into the berm during the draw. What a Bozo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 the guy that told you to bury the first round.. smack him... It will take practice..but you can work that DA shot no problem.. when I first switched over to CZ..at 10 yards..I would get two groups..one at POA..the SA shot..and the other about 2" low left, the DA shot.. after about 100 rounds of really concentrated DA first shots..I got the two groups to become one..and now..it is no issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iweiny Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I don't know the CZ's but on our Sig and HK you can de-cock the gun. I found the best way to learn the double action pull was to shoot a couple mags each practice session de-cocking the gun after each shot. The other nice thing about these guns is that for dry-fire every shot is DA! Bruce Gray told us during a class that you can also practice taking up some of the DA travel before the gun is up on target (BUT AFTER it is safely pointed down range). This is an advanced technique so practice it dry fire and slowly first. Ira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 +1 to George's comments... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I shot a CZ 75 in Production for a time. The first thing I did was to remove the magazine brake and install a lighter main spring. Wolf sells a spring kit and it's not very expensive. Then I did a bit of practicing. ...you can also practice taking up some of the DA travel before the gun is up on target... How about "most" instead of "some"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Method 4 is to send your CZ to Matt Mink and have him clean up your trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 one of the guys that has been around awhile told me to just bury that first shot into the ground while I am drawing Been around what? Bad idea learn the trigger and stay away from the idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 I shoot a Sig 229 in production and actually have it easier with that gun with it's da then sa than I do with my LDA in 9mm. I take my time with the Sig and usually nail the first shot because I'm aware of the harder pull. Oddly enough I can do a sub 4 - 10 yard plate rack with it and can't manage the same time with my 9mm LDA. Smaller gun, bigger caliber, differing trigger weights, shorter barrel, and yet I do better with it than the 1911 frame I'm used to shooting in Limited/L10. strange Vince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Method 4 is to send your CZ to Matt Mink and have him clean up your trigger. A big + 1 on that. A world of difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Most anytime anyone suggests dumping rounds or stacking I suggest turning off your ears and your BS detector on. I've been playing with a SP01 w/ Angus' trigger and it is pretty nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Method 4 is to send your CZ to Matt Mink and have him clean up your trigger. I have an Angus-ized version. It is real sweet but it is a world of difference from my 1.75# 1911! The action job is just a step in the journey... I finally found the link to: Fear Not, The Double Action Shot By Ernest Langdon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTOSHootr Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 Method 4 is to send your CZ to Matt Mink and have him clean up your trigger. A big + 1 on that. A world of difference. Add my vote here. I have a "Minked-out" CZ 75 that I love. It is so easy to dry fire the double action pull over and over again, that you have no excuse not to master it until it isn't a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhgunguy Posted April 22, 2006 Author Share Posted April 22, 2006 So shoot the targets, not the ground. OK! As for the trigger work, how much and how long will I be without? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 22, 2006 Share Posted April 22, 2006 So shoot the targets, not the ground. OK! As for the trigger work, how much and how long will I be without? Matt Mink posted in this thread...post #5. Send him a PM or an email. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 rhgunguy, like he said, send me a PM. You are a CZ guy, I'll take care of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No.343 Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 I shoot a Beretta 92FS in production. I make it a point to practice a lot of double action shots with it. I shoot several double action shots at 25 yds. I usually shoot an entire magazine of double action shots to warm up. This has worked pretty well for me and I do not throw my double action shots. Unless I have to shoot one handed with my weak hand. I should probably take my own advice and use the same routine for weak hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 343, Teach me o wise one as I am ordering my DA/SA from Angus this week. How does one steady the DA when trying to get the first shot off fast. Or should I expect a 1.15 or so draw with the DA? Also, is it difficult to adjust from that first shot to the subsequent ones trying to keep splits quick and maintain recoil control timing? Or is it all personal practice and feel? Thanks.. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 What a bone head. The little bit of extra time to make your first shot will still be faster than throwing one into the ground then trying to line up the sights. About the time you did that and put one to close to you into the ground could get you DQ'ed. Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No.343 Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Mike, As you well know I don't know anything about shooting fast. All I know is that if I stay with the front sight (that's the bump on top of the slide towards the front of the gun) I can make an accurate DA shot. I've never had an issue with the difference in feel between the SA and the DA. I just try to steady the sights as I pull the trigger. My old coach told me to picture having a string tied to the front sight and my finger. Then pull the front sight through the rear sight as I pull the trigger. When I do that and lots of DA dry firing the SA feels very light...even for a stock 92FS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Thanks.. I guess it's just alot of dry-firing.. Thanks again.. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now