Being Greeted By This Signeage

[DJPoLo]

Let me start this rant by saying that the match staff had absolutely no knowledge of this motel chain's policy beforehand.

So, I find the match hotel and get ready to check in only to be greeted by this bullsh*t at the front desk:

I expressed my dispeasure to the woman working check-in who said "Yeah, it's pretty scary here this weekend".

I explained to her that this was most assuredly the safest hotel in town right now and she rebutted her original statement.

In speaking with the manager, she explained to me that the 30.06 signage (my termanology, not hers) only refers to people carring concealed illegally. Huh? WTF??

Anyway, Super 8 Motels: Kiss my *ss. This is the last money you will ever get from me.

-Chet

Edited March 25, 2006 by DJPoLo

[EricW]

This a policy of all Super 8's?

If so, last damned money they or their parent company will ever see from me.

Is this in TX? You should send this to the NRA. They're challenging this kind of crap in court all the time, bless their peapickin' hearts.

Edited March 25, 2006 by EricW

[warpspeed]

Location / franchise specific or corporate policy ?

[DJPoLo]

Location / franchise specific or corporate policy ?

Manager and peons say this is corporate policy.

-Chet

[open17]

Location / franchise specific or corporate policy ?

Manager and peons say this is corporate policy.

-Chet

Which "corporate"?? Super 8 is one property of a larger corporation, Cendant.

If it is Cendant policy we are talking about here, you might need to widen the boycott

a bit. Other Cendant properties you might recognize include:

Amerihost Inn

Howard Johnson

Knights Inn

Ramada

Travelodge

Wingate Inn

[shred]

Location / franchise specific or corporate policy ?

Manager and peons say this is corporate policy.

-Chet

Methinks the new management is doing some CYA. A little googling doesn't show a raft of pissed off gun owners in other Super 8's, so I think this is the franchisee going nuts. The goofy no-revolvers stickers on the door aren't the kind of thing corporate does, they're the kind of thing loser locals do.

[DJPoLo]

The goofy no-revolvers stickers on the door aren't the kind of thing corporate does, they're the kind of thing loser locals do.

Agreed.

My internet search turned up the same results. I will send the corporate office a piece of my mind and, in the future, use another m/hotel.

FYI: When I asked the manager for their corporate address, they provided me with a card that had the local corporate-owned business.

-chet

[Larry White]

That would be the Super 8 in Wichita Falls TX. Ph#940-322-8880. Seems to be localy owned and operated, but if they are dba Super 8 a email to hq would be in order. They are discrimating against law abiding folks and interfering with our right to protect our selves.------Larry

[Rob Boudrie]

The reason you don't see this in Super 8's across the country is that only some states have a law allowing a businesses's posted sign to have the force of law. For example, we never see such signs here in the People's Democractic Republic of Massachusetts, since there is no provision to give such signs any more standing than signs banning entry while wearing dirty underwear. While business are free to expel pretty much anyone they want (except for a few prohibited forms of discrimination) at which point refusal to depart is trespass, the mere violation of a sign does not become a crime except in states with laws such as Texas which has the infamous "30.06" law.

This TX law was created because some DA or AG came up with the creative interpretation of the trespass law that violating a sign was "armed criminal trespass". The TX legislature decided to solve the ambiguity of that interpretation by codifying it in law, and setting specifications for the sign (1" letters, bilingual, specific wording).

I do hope that someone had the presence of mind to oprganize a mass early checkout and move as many people as possible to another hotel.

As to an NRA legal challange - there is no more basis in law for this than challanging any of the other "no carry zone" laws in various states.

[Pierruiggi]

1st of all, I couldn't help noticing that the number of this law (or whatever it is) being "30.06" is an unfortunate irony...

2nd, the spanish part of that sign makes absolutely no sense ("concealed handgun" translated as "illegal handgun"? WTF??? Oh sorry... according to that sign, "WTF?" would be "¿Qué de frijoles?" :P ). Well... Actually the english part doesn't make any sense either...

Edited March 26, 2006 by Pierruiggi

[Gary Johnson]

Seems like a pretty serious oversight on the part of the match organizers.

Granted, they can't be everywhere and know everything but that seems like something I would check for especially if I lived in a state with a cockeyed law like 30.06.

[kimel]

I believe that Super 8, as a chain, offers a NRA member discount. This always made me figure that Super 8, as a chain, was gun friendly.

Same sort of thing happened at Area 1 a few years ago I hear. Different chain though.

[kurtm]

I admire the style of it. I love these little signs. It tells me the guy breaking into my room is indeed a criminal as all "law abiding guests" aren't armed and so wouldn't dare to break into someone elses room in fear of being shot

I treat these signs with all the respect they deserve, after all concealed means it can't be seen! KURTM

[XRe]

Seems like a pretty serious oversight on the part of the match organizers.

Go read the DoubleTap match thread - Robert (scorch) discusses looking around for a hotel without the signage, IIRC... The signs weren't there when he booked the hotel (though the match management claimed the signs had been there since the building was built - even though they'd just taken over the hotel pretty recently... and it seemed pretty damn old, enough to precede Texas' CHL laws anyway, and therefore predate 30.06....).

So, he made a best effort at it...

I treat these signs with all the respect they deserve, after all concealed means it can't be seen! KURTM

I think the consensus going around was that if some bad guy came through the door, we'd all be happy to remind management that we couldn't stop their robbery in progress (much as we'd like to), cause of course none of us were carrying concealed (or unconcealed, which isn't exactly legal, either) weapons in their establishment.... Almost wish that'd happened....

[carinab]

I shined the warning on - wearing my G21 while registering... I'm fairly certain the signage they have isn't posted properly and hence can be disregarded. The gun buster sticker on the door means absolutely nothing. The verbage on the sign is correct and in the correct dimensions but putting it over the front desk negates its effect. It has to be outside at the front enterance. A sign was properly displayed on the back door but ALL enterances have to display the sign properly or you have a valid defense to criminal trespass. There is also some code about having a concealed handgun at your place of residence that may or may not supercede the 30.06 code in regards to hotels/motels. If you rent the room, it's your temporary residence. I'd have to review in my CHL instructor notes, but I'm thinking the newly tweeked "travel" code also may supercede the 30.06. This question came up at the my last renewal class in Austin.

Oh, and I do believe Robert made it clear to them that if they don't change their policy, he will find another hotel who will be happy to take the business. (BTW, I vote the Ramada Limited)

Edited March 27, 2006 by carinab

[AlamoShooter]

Im not a big spender, but I would rather spend $25 more a night and have a large 'rest' and relax/ visit area, and a larger room for the AM coffey croud.

[Bruce]

Cendant is the mother-ship to Super 8 and many others.

Here is Cendant's site...email them. http://hotelfranchise.cendant.com/

I agree with KurtM...or probably would, but I can't read english or spanish...blame it on my public school education

[Rob Boudrie]

I believe that Super 8, as a chain, offers a NRA member discount. This always made me figure that Super 8, as a chain, was gun friendly.

Same sort of thing happened at Area 1 a few years ago I hear. Different chain though.

It would be interesting to see if the NRA was willing to withdraw its endorsement of the program, and advise their customers to avoid Super 8's. Of course, if it's a discount program with a rebate to the NRA (car rental discounts work this way) it could be a tough call for them.

[Rob Boudrie]

Cedant hotels has many brands of hotels (Super 8, Days Ins, etc.) and is at least in part a franchise operation.

I'm going to write the CEO of Cedant with a few questions:

1) Is this sign corporate policy?

2) Are franchisees required to display this sign, or is the decision as to posting left up to the individual franchisee?

3) Since the public is told that citizens are not lawfully armed in the hotel lobby, what precautions are taken to assure that the lobby remains a sterile gun-free environment so that your disarmed and law abiding patrons are not the proverbial sitting ducks?

4) Are hotel managers permitted to give groups booking blocks of rooms in their hotels permission to carry firearms, the provisions of the Texas 30.06 sign not withstanding?

I'll post the response when/if I get it.

[DJPoLo]

Cedant hotels has many brands of hotels (Super 8, Days Ins, etc.) and is at least in part a franchise operation.

Thanks, Rob. Here's some other info that might be useful:

-Chet

[Rob Boudrie]

Cedant hotels has many brands of hotels (Super 8, Days Ins, etc.) and is at least in part a franchise operation.

Thanks, Rob. Here's some other info that might be useful:

-Chet

The first step is to find out if franchisees have the authority to make their own decision. If the answer is "no", USPSA members across the country should consider how Cedant values the rights of gun owners.

If the answer is "yes", it's time to deal with the franchisee - who may actually care about the business.

It makes no sense to deal with the franchisee until you know if you should believe the not unexpected response of "It's not up to me, it came from corporate."

[Genghis]

I'm fairly certain the signage they have isn't posted properly and hence can be disregarded.

The gun buster sticker on the door means absolutely nothing.

ALL enterances have to display the sign properly or you have a valid defense to criminal trespass.

There is also some code about having a concealed handgun at your place of residence that may or may not supercede the 30.06 code in regards to hotels/motels. If you rent the room, it's your temporary residence.

I'd have to review in my CHL instructor notes, but I'm thinking the newly tweeked "travel" code also may supercede the 30.06.

+1 on all of this from a Texas atty who keeps up with gun laws. Not legal advice, of course.

The signs are ineffective because 1) they weren't posted at all entrances, and 2) 30.06 signs only prohibit carrying handguns into the posted premises under the authority of the concealed handgun law. Texas law also allows you to possess handguns in your residence, even without a CHL. A hotel room qualifies as a temporary residence. So anyone who rooms in the hotel can take their guns there, without relying on their CHL for authority to do so.

I was totally offended by the signs, regardless of their legality. Some people said that they didn't care because their guns were concealed. But I actively vote with my wallet, and I avoid giving any money who someone who doesn't care if I am safe in their business.

[shred]

Yeah, legal or not, the no-revolvers stickers are a clear 'we don't like your kind here' sign. I hadn't seen that level of virulence in a long time-- when the CHL law first went into effect there were a bunch of them, but as time went by, they've mostly gone away.

[Rob Boudrie]

Yeah, legal or not, the no-revolvers stickers are a clear 'we don't like your kind here' sign. I hadn't seen that level of virulence in a long time-- when the CHL law first went into effect there were a bunch of them, but as time went by, they've mostly gone away.

Accepting the signs as "OK" is like considering "no jews" or "no blacks" signs acceptable because they are not legally enforceable.

The first step is to find out who to blame; the second is to give them a chance to reform; and the third is to adjust one's behavior accodingly.

[carinab]

So as not to invoke the rebuttal rule, I hate it when my post (and others) get misconstrued. I don't see the sentiment that the signs were "okay" because they weren't enforceable/legal. That certainly wasn't the intent of my post.

I'm thinking that most of us just made the best of a bad situation and voiced our discontent. Individual competitors could have changed hotels but that would impact the match costs as I'm sure the RO rooms were negotiated on a certain level of occupancy. To my understanding of the timeline, the hotel was selected and a rate negotiated. The hotel then changed management. The new management put up the sign. As soon as the match director was made aware of the sign (likely the first night the RO's stayed there), he made his displeasure known. I also know that he has told them that the signage has to go if they want to be considered for next year's match. I think we need to persuade them and the all mighty dollar can witness in a loud voice.

The Wichita Falls Board of Commerce and Industry lists the management information as:

LALANI LODGING, INC.

Reps: mlalani@lalanilodging.com Ms. Antoinette Chiappe, Director of Support Services

munirlalani@lalanilodging.com Mr. Munir Lalani, President & CEO

Address: 4245 Kemp Boulevard, #320

PO Box 4868

Wichita Falls, TX 76308-4868

Telephone: (940) 692-9885

Main Email: mlalani@lalanilodging.com

Categories: Real Estate - Development And Investment

Regardless of whether this is a franchise or a corporate policy, I think they both need nasty-grams. If it's a corporate policy, they need alot of persuasion. If it's a franchise policy, perhaps the corporate level will apply pressure to the franchisee. It's likely the Lalani group owns other hotels, we need to find out which ones. After that, we circulate an email amongst the A4 shooters to boycott their businesses....and send them a copy of that email.