Kalashnikov shotguns?

[jhgtyre]

Oh I'm all for stirring the pot I just don't think the point has anything to do with the tubular magazine.  The point as a lot to do with how fast you can reload the gun and what the dbm will do to the game.  If these guns became popular it would start yet another equipment race and new shooters would not be looking at limited as a place where they could grab their old 12 gauge and go out for a little fun.  Limited should have limits just as the name implies.  So throw a dot scope on the Kalishnikov, pop a comp on the end of it, and blast away!

ps - I have seen some pump gun shooters who might argue about the significant advantage a semi-auto has over their pumps.  

[FayettevilleFatKid]

Unfortunately, I think we are reaching the point of whipping the proverbial dead horse, however, the point of protecting the game is the same argument as "we have alway's done it this way".  That is not my understanding of limited's conception.  It was to keep some ridiculous, expensive, unpractical, prototyped designs from gaining significant advantage.  Speedloaders, comp's, and dot's were simply obvious targets as limits, due to impracticality(much as the assault weapons ban's features list).  That doesn't mean that no element in that realm couldn't eventually be reconsidered as practical for limited(although I still contend that the dbm is not at all a "speedloader".  

As to the argument of discouraging new shooters, every new shooter immediately decides that his Mossberg house gun is not competitive, therefore it's time to buy a semi.  This gun cost's much less than the Jammington's, the Italian Recoil Monster, the entry level Super X2 Practical, and the Browning Gold(!).  These guns are much more of an equipment race than a $350 dollar shotgun, with 6 extra 5 rd mags at $25 each.

[Nik Habicht]

I didn't decide that my 870 wasn't competitive --- I decided that I wasn't and I practiced.  Now occasionally I'll beat people shooting autos.  I'm perfectly willing to take my 870 into open competition.  I agree however that magazine loaded shotguns belong in open, unless you're willing to load the magazines with no more than two rounds at a time.

[Flexmoney]

I thought I would jump in and show some support for FFK.

No optic.

No comp.

No speedloader.

Cheap.

What more could a shooter ask for in a limited gun???  If they run and hit...have at it.

[jhgtyre]

(dead horse beating mode) The contention that a magazine isn't a speedloader while it may appear valid on the surface just doesn't hold up.  What does a speed loader do?  It allows for a rapid refill of the gun.  What does a magazine do?  It allows for a rapid refill of the gun.  They are only superficially different.  They fill the same function. (/dead horse beating mode)

[2alpha]

I think everyone is overlooking one very important point, that AK shotgun is not a real shotgun. It is a rifle with a shotgun barrel, it will not point and handle like a shotgun. The box magazine might be an advantage but it wouldn't make up for the lack of speed and handling that a real shotgun has.

[FayettevilleFatKid]

I suppose that a shotgun with a pistol grip and/or rifle sights or ghost rings handles like a "real" shotgun??  Never seen those features on the skeet range.....

As to the discussion of "what does a speedloader do?", well I'm going to whip that horse a little myself.  By your definition my sidesaddle and forearm carrier can be construed as a "speedloader", because "it allows me to reload my shotgun rapidly".  Bottom line to me, the rules say "speedloader" which is technically different than a "detachable box magazine", even if in spirit it acts as such.

And let's see, if you spend equal time practicing with a pump and a semi, I wonder which you'll post better scores with....

[jhgtyre]

Your sidesaddle and forearm carrier are ammo pouches which are more akin to placing mag pouches on the front of your belt for a pistol match than they are to speedloaders.  They are not relevent to the argument that this AK shotgun belongs in limited.  They still let you load one round at a time.  

Pay the match fees for an area match and show up with this shotgun.  You don't have to convince me you have to convince the organization.  I don't think it is going to happen.  

BTW the guys or gals who win in limited now would just switch to a mag fed gun and win some more.  So what is the point of ruining limited for those with tube fed guns?  So you can sneek in a win or two before the field catches up?  I just don't get it.

[FayettevilleFatKid]

In all reality, this whole argument is actually more of a way to ease my pain of quitting smoking!!  Fortunately, it has worked so far, but I guess we can have a friendly agreement to disagree...

[jhgtyre]

Sounds fair to me.  

I think midvalleyshooter might be an instigator.  Did you see the C-More shotgun he made a post about?  Now that looks fun!  Especially mounted on an M4.

[FayettevilleFatKid]

I'm thinking so...as much as I always hate to admit that anything newer than a Browning HP is any good, it seems there's actually some development on the shotgun front.  I really do wonder why repeating shotguns haven't progressed much since 1900.

By the way, if I seemed overly aggressive on my final "argument" post, I apologize to anyone I offended.  I'm really a nice fellow, it is just the desire for nicotine....