ArnisAndyz Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Anybody ever run there AR without the buffer retainer pin/spring? I took off the stock on my AR and my retainer pin and spring ended up lost on my garage floor. After looking for serveral hours I gave up and assembled the rifle without the pin/spring (the buffer is held in by the rear of the carrier). Everything seems to function fine. Is it OK to run like this for a while until I get some new parts (or find the ones on the floor)? I heard some reports of the Pin breaking and locking up the rifle by lodging in the carrier or buffer - seems like this pretty much eliminates that from happening, on the remote chance it does. It would be a pain for someone that field-strips thier gun alot , but being a recreational shooter, the only time I really ever break it open is after a match for detailed cleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Yep, I run without them. Saw one break, took it out of one, never put it in the other. Every now and then I forget and get a mashed finger when I break the rifle down.------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 +1 to Larry about it being OK to run without. I tried it and the only problem with it is remembering as Larry says! I run mine in now because I am old and kinda remember things, but not really ;--) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) All of us at Cavalry Arms do not use buffer detents in our rifles. We have seen them break in all makes of AR15 variants. I have seen them break in a half dozen competition shooters' guns. The tip of the detent will fall into the fire control parts causing them to lock up. You will not be able to keep shooting until you disassemble the rifle an remove the broken piece. The buffer detent does nothing but make the rifle easier to disassemble. Removing it will eliminate the possiblity of breakage, and puts constant positive forward pressure on the bolt carrier, also theoretically making the rifle more reliable. For disassembly, drop the hammer on an empty chamber and the hammer will catch the buffer. Or just remember you need to catch it with your thumb as you disassemble the rifle. Edited March 13, 2006 by SinistralRifleman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArnisAndyz Posted March 13, 2006 Author Share Posted March 13, 2006 Thanks alot for the advise! Maybe it was a blessing that those parts ended up lost, I sure was pissed at myself when it happened though! Maybe I would have never had a problem with breakage, but Iguess i'll never know since its not going back in after what you guys said. If its not there, it can't break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) Aw comeon George. It will remind you, real fast. The good part is I put one togerher with out the carrier and bolt the other day, hard to hold the spring and buffer back with a cleaning rod while you get the pins back out.-------Larry Edited March 13, 2006 by lkytx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 I have seen them break in a half dozen competition shooters' guns. The tip of the detent will fall into the fire control parts causing them to lock up. You will not be able to keep shooting until you disassemble the rifle an remove the broken piece. I've had that very thing happen in one of my ARs. The tip broke off and locked up my fire control group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Aw come on George. It will remind you, real fast It did, it did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 At '04 SMM3Gun mine broke off during a rifle stage, the pieces fell into the trigger group, and then all I had was an expensive club that would hold a magazine of ammo. I removed the trigger, cleaned out all the parts and pieces, and never will replace the retainer pin. As Russel said, just drop the hammer and it will block the buffer if you forget when breakin it down. jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 (edited) Can you guys please list the makes of all the rifles you've seen this happen in. Various people are saying that we reccomend it because it is an issue with Cav Arms receivers only. I've personally seen it happen in Colt, DPMS, Bushmaster, and JP lowers...I don't believe it is confined to any one brand. It is simply something that has the possibility of going wrong if you shoot your rifles a lot, which most of us do. Edited March 14, 2006 by SinistralRifleman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I dont rember the brand of rifle the only one Ive seen happen, but it wasnt Cav Arms, Thats not to say it cant happen to a Cav Arms I think its kind of generic.-----Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I heard about this possibility and stories of it happening to others as far back as 1989. It ain't a recent thang! And it sure as heck ain't a Cav Arms thang! It's a cheesy little part and stuff happens ;-) BTW, now that this thread has beaten a new groove into my brain cell (singular on purpose), I am gonna' hafta' go remove this part from all my AR's. 3 Jack-in-the-boxes, here we come ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 You know I take for granted how civilized this forum is some times...we previously tried to discuss this issue on another forum and it turned into a several hundred post long e-battle, about how we were fools to suggest removing the buffer detent, and if it wasn't supposed to be there Eugene Stoner would have designed the rifle without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 You know I take for granted how civilized this forum is some times...we previously tried to discuss this issue on another forum and it turned into a several hundred post long e-battle, .......... Thank you, Mods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 Well, all fall to hardball and JMB didnt do it that way, but seems folks here are slanted more toward fact and preformace than dogma and ledgend. Thats my profound speech for today.------Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 My detent broke in my Bushmaster. I can't see the quality of the part being much different as between different makers. The tip of the detent is small and thin and the buffer pounds it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.E.Anglin Posted March 16, 2006 Share Posted March 16, 2006 about a year ago or so after Russel told me about the problem, I removed all mine, except from my DPMS .300 SAUM and my new Armalite AR10 .308 I don't think I want those springs flying out of there, they might take out a small city!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPiatt Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 I think you're all assuming that it's the buffer hitting it that causes the breakage. Are we sure it's not the bolt carrier hitting it during cycle?? If it's the buffer then, What if???? Removing the pin and spring fixes one problem (broken parts/disabled gun) and causes another (flying buffers when disassembling) What if the hole location was say ... 1/8" forward? That would alleviate any stress from the buffer hitting it, That would prevent soldiers in the field from having their buffer and spring come loose when field stripping. If we did move the hole, would this now cause bolt carrier interference? Things that make you say hmmmmm Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 26, 2006 Share Posted March 26, 2006 A well fit upper to lower and barrel to upper will cause the back of the bolt to slightly cam the buffer back away from the detent when closed. This is one of the major things I look for in selecting an upper/lower combo. I have never had one break and this is after untold thousands of rounds. This was something I heard about in the mid 70s and the guy who told me about it was Richard Butel's son...the President of Fairchild Aircraft...parent company of Armalite. I guess he knew what he was talking about as like I said I haven't had one break......but there is always the next match. KURTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polecat52 Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 I had a buffer retainer end up in the trigger group and the spring bent ao ordered another. Same thing happened again. I am going to run my Ruger 556 without the retainer from now on thanks to the great information I found on this forum. js Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin21 Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 So I can shoot my ar without the pin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfiddy Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Jp captured spring keeps this from being an issue, it’ll cost a few bucks but it’s worth it for several reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avastcosmicarena Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 I currently don't use a retainer pin, and it's fine, but I just discovered V Seven makes a titanium buffer retainer pin. Maybe, that's a good solution for people who want to use one but are worried about them breaking? Thinking about maybe trying it out.https://www.vsevenweaponsystems.com/v7-titanium-buffer-retainer/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtruong Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Per JP’s recommendation, I don’t run one with my SCS buffer. Makes it easier to remove the SCS and no difference in performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam_b Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 I run my JP SCS without one per the instructions, but it ran fine with one in there. Its just an ease of assembly thing and I prefer to run them in my other rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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