Wolf Steel Case Ammo

[Darianis]

I have a peiced togather AR that I recently bought from a good friend. This rifle has a 16" super match fluted bbl. I was going to get 2-3 cases or the 62gr wolf ammo to feed it as I can get that for about $100 per case. The gun shoots sub MOA with it and makes power easily.

But another friend told me that the steel cased ammo may damage the chamber on very tight chambers. is there any trute to this? and if so what's a good alternitive that's resonable cheap?

Thanks for any info

Tony

[DMH]

I like Winchester White Box from any of the big Mart stores. I got the wife to pick up a box or 2 when she went for groceries for a few months. Wound up with a nice pile in a short time.

[Derek45]

You can go to ar15.com and stir up a swarm of bees with that question.

I don't shoot steel cased wolf in My AR15s, but I will in My 7.62x39, and 5.45mm AK rifles.

For 5.56, I use Winchester White box, or handloads.

[TBF]

Tony,

FWIW the steel used by Wolf is darn near as soft as brass.

Travis F.

[kurtm]

It won't hurt a thing!! Mild steel is just as soft as hardened brass. The polimer coatiung makes the case as slick as anything else, so blast away. I don't shoot it in matches because it doesn't group as well as swome of the othere stuff, but I have burned a boat load in practice and havent seen any undo wear in two barrels worth!! KURT

[anachronism]

Let me see if I've got this right. You have an expensive, premium barrel, and are going to shoot the cheapest CRAP in it you can find?

By the way, I've heard from some very reliable sources that steel cases are really hard on AR extractors. These people are reliable, and informed enough that I'm not going to try it.

Now I can hear people saying "if you haven't tried it yourself, how can you say it's bad"? I've had people tell me that fire is hot, but I've never felt the need to burn myself just to see if it's true.

[Larry White]

Let me see if I've got this right. You have an expensive, premium barrel, and are going to shoot the cheapest CRAP in it you can find?

By the way, I've heard from some very reliable sources that steel cases are really hard on AR extractors. These people are reliable, and informed enough that I'm not going to try it.

Now I can hear people saying "if you haven't tried it yourself, how can you say it's bad"? I've had people tell me that fire is hot, but I've never felt the need to burn myself just to see if it's true.

I bet the guy talking about extractors was leaning on a gun shop counter. But even if hes right extractors are cheap, I change it now and then anyway, usually when I change gas rings.-----Larry

[Bruce]

Let me see if I've got this right. You have an expensive, premium barrel, and are going to shoot the cheapest CRAP in it you can find?

By the way, I've heard from some very reliable sources that steel cases are really hard on AR extractors. These people are reliable, and informed enough that I'm not going to try it.

Now I can hear people saying "if you haven't tried it yourself, how can you say it's bad"? I've had people tell me that fire is hot, but I've never felt the need to burn myself just to see if it's true.

Wolf is decently priced, but is (in my experience) not crap. In fact, it will group with more than a few brands that cost more. I have shot quite a bit of it, have had no problems with part wear or breakage.

[Bigbadaboom]

Opinions vary and you'll get a lot of varying opinions in regards to Wolf ammo.

Draw your own conclusion. Shoot it in your gun and if everything lasts and works with no problems then great. If it causes a bunch of problems and wears your gun out too quickly then that sucks but you won't get a conclusive, end all be all answer about it. There's to many varying opinions.

Edited February 27, 2006 by Bigbadaboom

[George]

The Wolff stuff seems to be of lower oomph than the 55er's I load up that run 3100+fps. I tried a few dozen rounds in my JP today because some guys practicing with me were having trouble hitting anything with it. It failed to lock the bolt open on the last round everytime and failed to send the bolt back far enough to pick up a round several times. I have my JP gas block tuned down to lock open reliably on 55 ball that goes downrange at anything over 3050fps. This stuff is most likely not even doing 3000fps from a 20" bbl. That's not good for commercial 55gr ball ;-(

As far as accuracy went, it seems from my limited testing that it was not grouping well from my CTR, or from these guys rifles (1 AR and 1 Mini 14). I was able to reliably hit a 10" plate with the Wolff in my JP 1:8 20incher and a 4x ACOG, but with the other guys AR and a 4x scope only maybe 40-50% of the time. With my handloaded 55gr ball in his AR it spanked that 220 yard steel plate every time you held on it!

IMHO, this Wolff stuff may function fine and it may not even harm the gun, but man is it crappy as far as flying true goes :-(

Just my .025 after spending over an hour helping these guys figure out why they couldn't hit the steel at 200+ yards.

BTW, the Mini-14 was taken to the 100 yard line and shot off a soft rest and it delivered 8+ MOA with the Wolff!! It delivered under 4 MOA with my custom 55gr ball.

I wanna' put a couple dozen rounds of this shjt over a chrono sometime soon and see what's up with it. It just ain't right that it should spray around like this. It looks like nice stuff and it would be nice if it were really good at the price. But you do get what ya' pay for ;-))

[Darianis]

Thanks for all the info. and for the record I beleve in my 1st post I mentioned that the gun was able to get sub MOA groups out as far as 100 yards. Would have tested it at longer ranges but it was wet and cold so we didn't. I think the best group at 100 yards was something like 3/4". Fired semi off hand. ie resting the mag on the bench sorta like a monopod and as I mentioed earlier conditions were far from ideal I will be shooting it more soon to get a better idea of the long range group size. I will be very happy if it can hold moa to 300yards.

I will be reloading my ammo soon but for the time being I think I'll shoot a few boxes of the cheap stuff.

Thanks again for the info.

P.S. The rifle was peiced togather out of spare parts that Jeff Cramblit had in his safe. I asked if I could borrow a rifle for a tactiac 3 gun match he was putting on. Well started handing me loose parts and after some time hunting around he found everything to make it go bang. I'll give ya a parts list as best I can.

Upper is a DPMS flat-top

Lower is a pretty beat up olimpic arms

4 position stock

standard car style handguards

JP stainless bold and carrier

16" fluted super match bbl(MFG unknown)

A2 style birdcage style comp. but with 2 chambers(actually pushes the muzzle down gonna need some tuning )

It had a tower frontsight post/gasblock but a hacksaw reduced it to a gas block only

and I got it for a steal. Won't mention how much but if you were to guess it would probly be high. Jeff is building his house and has had to clean his safe out a bit to pay off the inspecters.

I'll post a pic tomorow if I get off my backside

[smokshwn]

I had no problem making hits at RM3G (300yd+ flash targets) last year with the 62gr stuff. My gun shoots it better than I can.

Check out this link Wolf Thread.

Now even though I say this, consider very very carefully whether or not it is worth it to shoot ammo that groups and functions well in YOUR gun for $50-80 dollars a case less than the competition when it could cost you the breakage of a five dollar part that should be changed on a somewhat routine basis.

Good luck, Craig

[glockster96]

I started blasting through a case today. Shot about 250 rounds, with no FTF or other malfunctions. Accuracy was around 1 MOA, and we had no problems shooting the 10" plate at 200. FWIW, it is a brand new case of 55s. If this case goes well, I will try some 62s and be happy as a pig in spit that I found ammo that is good enough for my meager 3 gunning rifle skills.

[Religious Shooter]

But another friend told me that the steel cased ammo may damage the chamber on very tight chambers. is there any trute to this? and if so what's a good alternitive that's resonable cheap?

...

It had a tower frontsight post/gasblock but a hacksaw reduced it to a gas block only

and I got it for a steal. Won't mention how much but if you were to guess it would probly be high.

When I first read your post I thought you had paid a pretty penny for it. But since you got it cheap... just shoot the shjt out of it using the Wolf.

But I think damage can happen if you are not fastidious. I recently took out a box of Wolf 55's that had gotten damp during some fun out in the rain. The casings had very noticeable rust on it and of course I shot them as is.

I don't know how hard rust is but I don't think it would be the best thing to shoot since the rust may act as an abrasive and may potentially scratch up your chamber. Of course if the casings on the Wolf are prestine the point is moot.

But as noted above Wolf ammo tends to be on the wimpy side. This usually means less powder. Which usually means less heat. Which usually means you will have less erosion of your barrel/throat than if you were using hotter ammo. I'd put forward that you actually may potentially prolong the life of your barrel by using the wimpy Wolf ammo vs. "full power" XM193/Q3131A/etc.

For a cheaper or as cheap alternative you may want to just reload. Wolf has gone up to about $140-$150 delivered. From a recent bulk purchase I did from Powder Valley I essentially got a delivered price of:

4000 55 grain Win FMJBT for $157.29 ==> $157.29/4000 = $.039/rd

1lb of A2230C (bought 8lb) for $9.36 ==> 7000 grains / 26 grains = 269.23 rds/lb ==> $.035/rd

1000 primers for $16.52 ==> $.017

So if you pick and prep your brass ==> $.039+$.035+$.017=$.091 x 1000 = $91 for 1000

And if you don't want to do the pick up and prep the brass yourself and just use 100% processed brass ==> $91 + $47 = $138 for 1000 loaded rounds.

I figure these reloads are on par with say PMC (e.g. brass cased, lower powered, etc.). Which due to the WOT is probably around $200 a case delivered if you can find it. So you are looking at a $200-$138=$62 differential if you use the 100% processed brass.

If you have right equipment and use the 100% proceesed brass you can reload 1000 rounds in 1-2 hours. With my 650 w/case feeder I can comfortably load 1000 rounds in 2 hours. So I figure I am "paying" myself $62/2 hours = $31/hour tax free.

[John Dunn]

3/4" off hand monopod group? Nice shooting.

[smokshwn]

Here's some current pricing on WOLF as of 2/26/06

WOLF (Russia) .223 FMJ, Copper Jacket, Steel Case, 55gr / 62gr

DEALER NET SHIPPING TOTAL NOTES WEB SITE---------------- ------- ------ ------- ---------------- --------------

Ammoman $139.00 $00.00 $139.00 OUT - 62gr Ammoman

AmmunitionStore 109.95 18.00 127.95 OUT - 62gr AmmunitionStore

Cabela's 129.99 17.75 147.74 Cabela's

Centerfire Systems 133.87 9.99 143.86 Centerfire Systems

Cheaper Than Dirt 123.74 15.59 139.33 OUT - 62gr Cheaper Than Dirt

Outdoor Marksman 120.00 22.12 142.12 Outdoor Marksman

Sportsman's Guide 119.97 13.99 133.96 SEE NOTE 7. Sportsman's Guide

NOTE 7. $113.97 NET for SG members. $10/$15/$20 Coupons

Link for SG coupons SG Coupon Page

Take care, Craig

[Darianis]

3/4" off hand monopod group? Nice shooting.

yes I have to agree I only wish I was able to do that That group was shot by Jeff Cramblit my groups were in the ballpark or 1.5-1.75 inches

[RH45]

I bought 2000 rounds of Wolf 62 grain last year for shooting the close targets at 3 gun matchs. I can't take the time to load for $100 a case, but, I won't use it on long, or tight shots. I never chronoed it, but, as far as accuracy, I can't get it to shoot any better than 2" at 100 yards, but, for the close "hose" targets, it works just fine.

[Tokarev]

WOLF's 2006 catalog. Note that they are expanding the brass cased stuff. I wonder how much the 75 grain .223 ammo will be?

WOLF

[chp5]

WOLF's 2006 catalog. Note that they are expanding the brass cased stuff. I wonder how much the 75 grain .223 ammo will be?

WOLF

Tokarev,

Have you heard anything more about Wolf increasing the velocity of its .223?

[Tokarev]

WOLF's 2006 catalog. Note that they are expanding the brass cased stuff. I wonder how much the 75 grain .223 ammo will be?

WOLF

Tokarev,

Have you heard anything more about Wolf increasing the velocity of its .223?

Jacki has been very hard to get in touch with over the last month with SHOT and all. I'll try to get with her in the next day or two and find something out.

I also want to get info on the reloading components!