BigDave Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 You cannot shoot at the top level of the game (especially in Open) and have penalties.Besides, practice is for learning. To win requires shooting the match in total control. Are local monthly matches practice or are they the same as a major? I've heard you say that you treat ever match as if it were the Nationals. This really will mean different things to differnt people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 26, 2006 Author Share Posted February 26, 2006 A match is a match. I don't consider local matches practice because practice by definition is something you repeat over and over again to get better at it. In any match, you have 1 shot at a stage. You can't shoot the stage over and over again to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 A match is a match.I don't consider local matches practice because practice by definition is something you repeat over and over again to get better at it. In any match, you have 1 shot at a stage. You can't shoot the stage over and over again to get better. I agree, but there are places where re-shoots are quite the norm. And, you can practice classifiers (which make up portions of a match) ad infinitum, e.g. El Prez, Vice Prez, etc. Shooting penalty free must be the goal of M's and GM's, I don't think the same is true for others. It certainly isn't how I look at it, not if I want to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 I voted 25, but my guess would be some number less than 50. Not because I don't think you can't shoot 100+ w/out a penalty, but it strikes me that at some point, a penalty has to be worth the gamble, and the nature of gambling is sometimes you lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Well Jake we have to have nay-sayers... without them we wouldn't have anyone to prove wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwin garcia Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 It's all about goal setting. Specific Measurable Attainable Realistic Time I believe it can be done. If no one has done it before, It'd be real cool if Jake breaks that barrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian38 Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Alright, so I set the goal of shooting 100 stages in a row without a penalty. I'm only 11 in so far. I will soon be keeping a running total on my website as well.What I want to know is what you guys think can be done. How many stages can be shot in a row without a penalty? I didn't vote as I think you can shoot as many clean stages as you set your mind to. I don't think it will necessarily help your shooting any though. I don't really know how to explain ... my first thought was WHY ? ... are penalty points a problem ? I'm surprised at your level you would even be thinking of them. If your doing things right they are a non-issue ... now focusing on all alphas or something seems like a better plan ... that way your raising the bar ... not just avoiding it. I know a couple of shooters that don't get penalty's ... but they also never win matches...they are not getting any better either ! all this is said respectfully if it sounds bad i just have a hard time writing with tact. C38 it is kind of like saying "I won't get any fatter" ... well that won't help the fact I'm 50 lbs. over weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 28, 2006 Author Share Posted February 28, 2006 I really don't know what to say to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 I am kind of confused. if one is shooting at a top level of performance how can a penalty NOT hurt you. when those you shoot againt aren't getting htem. the goal is not focusing on penalties it is focusing on shooting in control.. which a lot of A and master class shooters win stages at big matches.. but never the match because they are inconsistant. This is in no way sacraficing top level performance. only a practice of shooting in control. If you shoot out of control you will never remain at top for more than a match or 2 if you have any competitition Your weight analogy is kind of out of context having shot with jake and knowing him very well I know he has the skills to win major matches if he shoots them without crossing the line of being out of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian38 Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 (edited) I agree that penalty's and winning do not go together ...what i was trying to say is that the goal of "shooting 100 stages without any penalty's " is the WRONG goal. say you have two white targets and a brown one in between... the goal as stated is to miss the white ... seems like more alphas (or something to that effect would be a better goal) if more alphas is the goal ... the white is unimportant . Edited February 28, 2006 by caspian38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 So what do you propose the goal should be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian38 Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 So what do you propose the goal should be? That is something for each shooter to decide for himself ... but if he wants to be more consistent I would focus on that ... a great shooter once said "JUST AIM " maybe by adding the word MORE it might help. I personally added the word small "just Aim smAll" as I was shooting targets instead of A's anything that encourages shooting alphas at the fastest pace is a good goal. he is a better shooter than me right now So I can't tell him a good goal... but try not to use words like without, not or don't. hope I didn't offend ...! c38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Did you mean a better goal might be to get 95% of the points every match? Some argue that negative goals aren't as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 C38 I believe your trying to put something that jake or steve anderson said into coorelation out of context. "don't shoot the no shoot" is BAD negative reinforcement and makes the human brian more likely to focus on the no shoot than the A zone of the shoot target. however this goal is not something anyone will be chanting in their head before every stage. We've done the alpha goals the 95% of points etc. This is a goal to be consistant over a number of stages (100 in jakes case) to not make any mistakes for that number of stages. Which if you count out the stages is about 3 world shoots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 28, 2006 Author Share Posted February 28, 2006 (edited) I'm not even going to talk with someone that hijacks my thread and tells me my goal is flat out wrong. Edited February 28, 2006 by Jake Di Vita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Jake, You have some serious skillz, but I think the original question was so brief that there was some wanting to know about the thought process that went into the setting of the goal (on my part anyways.) We all work differently, so understanding someone else isn't easy, especially in cyberspace. Mistake free stages, matches, season would be great, how to get there, now that's the $10,000 question. Who care if others think your goals are right, wrong, realistic, or fantasy, you know you have proved one point for sure. You have a vision and the balls and dedicaion to "go for it." That is more than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 28, 2006 Author Share Posted February 28, 2006 Ok. I'll do my best to explain it then. Here is the basic thought process behind the goal. Q: What is required to shoot 100 stages in a row without a penalty? A: To be in total control of every single shot you make. If I am in total control of every shot I make, I will shoot consistent, good points, with a time that is based on the natural speed at which I can see the sights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 I understand you guys both, but I think you're not on the same line. I think C38 is reasoning that "shooting no penalties" is not what you want to be thinking while you're shooting a stage. I think Jake has the goal of shooting no penalties in the big picture, and will do whatever it takes to get there. You guys are just on a different page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian38 Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Ok. I'll do my best to explain it then. Here is the basic thought process behind the goal.Q: What is required to shoot 100 stages in a row without a penalty? A: To be in total control of every single shot you make. If I am in total control of every shot I make, I will shoot consistent, good points, with a time that is based on the natural speed at which I can see the sights. So what is your goal ? I get that you want to make a long term commitment to shooting in a more controlled manner... "I will shoot ### matches with ALL alphas. maintaining total control of every single shot I make." this way you are DOING instead of avoiding. YES all alphas WOULD BE HARD ! The Goal as stated was to shoot 100 matches without a penalty. all this goal tells me is that you don't want to mess up ... It doesn't state HOW you wish to improve your performance in any particular way. If you like I can just go with the flow and say you can shoot 100+ matches without a penalty. best of luck C38 sorry for hijacking your thread ... you won't hear a peep out of me anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Somebody here needs to have their Caps Lock key surgically removed. I hear it's painless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Dang this had the potential to be a real good thread! Advise is great if it can be backed up by fact.... All alphas is impossible in many cases and as many matches are is on Jake's schedule I'm sure there will be targets with no available "A" not to mention the balance of time and points here... which has nothing to do with penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 (edited) The Goal as stated was to shoot 100 matches without a penalty. all this goal tells me is that you don't want to mess up ... It doesn't state HOW you wish to improve your performance in any particular way. Neither does the goal "becoming World Champion", but I bet that was on the minds of everyone ever winning that title. Another point: if you think "not screwing up" is the goal of Jake, than I think you are wrong. Not shooting a penalty is something completely different. Take the World Shoot. Of about 800+ shooters, only one was penalty free (Eric Grauffel). TGO, Adam Tyc, Dave Sevigny, Jerry Miculek all shot penalties, and I think they all had the goal of shooting in a controlled manner. Yet, somehow they apparently didn't. The longer I think about this, the more I think Jake is onto something here. The whole "penalties don't exist, it's the Alphas we are aiming for" is getting old. Tough shots with penalties around them require more attention than tough shots without them. Edited February 28, 2006 by spook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 I know Jake well enough to know that his goal is to shoot clean and in control, and to trust that his technique and training will take care of the shooting. I know that is where he is. Without sacrificing his fundamentals, he is at a point where he will get to most gain from executing a solid mental game. This goal is a derivative of that. If you think about it, it's a great progression. Last year, Jake was just getting used to being behind an Open gun. He had the stated goal of blazing an El Prez. That was a good goal for him at the time. It allowed him to get used to a new shooting platform. That thread provided weeks worth of discussion and thought...kinda like this one. The Forum gave him some static on that. Some thought the goal too lofty. Some thought he should be more focused on Alphas. The fact is, here is a shooter that defined an area of his game that needed work, established a goal base on that, then worked toward that goal. The stated goal may not have been perfect for any and all. The bigger point, in my opinion, is that the goal was getting worked. A lot of learning can be accomplished while working a goal. I think Jake has proven that to us already. I'm not so concerned with how he stated that goal, because I knew what he meant. Others will have to state their goals in a manner that works for them. I can see some of the confusion here and I can see where some might come away from here with the thought that the goal focused on a negative. Good points. No worries. No reason to get too worked up about it. Besides...I'll be RO'ing Jake this weekend most likely. Is there any money in this pool??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Excellent post Flex! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 (edited) I've deleted my post - pissed off and dissappointed at a couple of posts. By different members so nobody needs to think this is directed at any one individual. Nice save Kyle. J Edited March 1, 2006 by j1b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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