Flexmoney Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 [admin hat on] OK...you two need to chill a bit. We don't need that on the forum. [hat off] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 11.1.9 Arbitration Committee’s Duty – The Arbitration Committee isbound to observe and apply the current IPSC Rules and to deliver a decision consistent with those rules. Where rules require interpretation or where an incident is not specifically covered by the rules, the Arbitration Committee will use their best judgment in the spirit of the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Cy, The rules for production is a real easy fix. You just take out all the items in parenthesis and everything internal is fair game or you make it a box stock division. Within a year the manufacturers will come out with a highly specialized Custom shop model that complies with the rules. If the true point is to avoid a arms race and keep costs down that will solve it. Buy a gun and the mods will be done. Flex said it best we have a rule book with procedures outlined to solve the problems at a match use what we have in the book. If it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't know about the Vanek trigger ruling. Is it fair to the members to have to keep going online to make sure the rules haven't changed this week? This is a game..nobody making millions so stick to KISS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardschennberg Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 The Single Action Shooting Society (SASS) and Cowboy Action Shooting tried to regulate shooting, equipment, and officiating based on the Spirit of the Game. Now the Teritorial Governers are considering rules on which gun modifications are allowed or disallowed that make every other shooting sport look comparitively simple. Further, the different interpretation on movement and penalties vary from club to club and even between Posse Leaders at the same club. So SASS will probably wind up with a bigger rulebook and lengthy officiating guidelines. Their membership and participation is still impressive, but the Sprit of the Game may be giving way to more legalism than if they had used written rules in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 In my many years of shooting USPSA/ IPSC, It seems the people that complain are the people that didn't think of it first! After you have finished the stage, They come running up and start bi$tching! There a lot of old time shooters here that are responsable for the rule book that we have! God bless them!!!!! I just don't like being beaten with the rubber chicken after the fact! Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 The rules must be applied as written. We have a process to resolve problems and, if necessary, update or change the rules. To the extent that there is conflict, it is a reflection of our society, not of the quality of the rulebook or the wisdom of the authors. As has been widely stated, no human creation can infallibly anticipate all future occurances and conditions that may arise a priori. Comparing the Rule of Law to the Rules of The Game, while similar, is not terribly useful to The Game. In The Game we create an artificial reality to make credible competition possible. Given the suspension of reality, one must follow the rules as written to stay in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 A game can not have rules without having a "spirit of the rules'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 A game can not have rules without having a "spirit of the rules'. Just be sure to call the Spirit Talker over to resolve the conflicts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 I define the "spirit of the rules" to mean the philosophy upon which the rules are based. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 If you mean "spirit of the Rules' to mean the basic principles of what we do, those are written down. If you mean "spirit of the rules" to come out and thwack us when we do something wrong, no way. The only way to be absolutley sure we comport with "spirit of the rules" is to engage in a Vulcan mind-meld with the rule maker. (There are some out there I don't want to mind-meld with even if the technology becomes possible.) You want me to do it or not do it, write it down. If you can't write it clearly, that's a clue you can't define it except by "the spirit of the rules." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Isn't the "spirit" of our game...freestyle? (giddyup ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 (edited) Isn't the "spirit" of our game...freestyle? (giddyup ) I would have said "Freestyle" was a philosophical foundational element while judgements on the "Spirit of the Rules" is strictly an Arbitration committee function per 11.1.9 of the current rule book. What's the difference between: 1) A Philosopher 2) A Spirit Talker 3) A Philosopher doing a Vulcan Mind-Meld with a Spirit Talker 4) $100.00 cash Answer: The cash gets you a hearing with the arb committee at most major matches. I crack me up Edited February 17, 2006 by Waltermitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Thats pretty funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Patrick, +1 Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 All I ever want to do is to...follow the rules exactly as written. Technological and tactical innovation flow from freestyle competition. "Spirit" is the name of a horse, not the way to play a game Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwana Six-Gun Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 FWIW, I have been shooting IPSC for 12 years and a Range Officer for 11 of them and the only way I know to do it is "as written". I have seen many cases of where the "spirit/intent" of the rule was not followed, but as the various shooters pointed out, they were within the rules. That is why I thought the rules were constantly updated. When you come across a potential problem you address it to the BOD. At the range, if the shooter doesn't like a call by the RO, he asks for the RM, MD or takes it to arbitration. Sorry for being so long winded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Freestyle, Freestyle, Freestyle.........thats how the game is played Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 After reading a few threads, I started thinking about how we interpet the rules. I see a few shooters talk about the "spirit of the division" and "intent of the writers".I'm a "as written" kind of guy. What about you? ETA: Spelling. George did not say anything about running stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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