shred Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Let's try and keep things civil here... The speed-bump Beretta trigger has long been an illegal PD mod due to its externality. Hard to claim the 'trigger work' exemption wouldn't apply to that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Just to throw this in here..Charlie's trigger is lstill egal on Open Glocks, Limited Glocks and Limited 10 Glocks... It is a great trigger and it is too bad people have investments made and the NROI interpretation wasn't made sooner. When I first got my Vanek trigger, one of the questions I asked was about the overtravel screw...Charlie said he did not know if it would be interpreted as legal..and I guess no one asked the question.. so now..someone asked the question...and we got the answer... the rule isn't new...its the interpretation that is new.. Courts do it everyday..add their interpretations to the laws.. yes..I still don't understand how you mill a slide to fit sights and still be production legal... The overtravel adjustment is internal, legal, for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 (edited) The overtravel adjustment is internal, legal, for now. On my G34..which I do not have anymore..you could see it at the back of the trigger from the side of the gun... anyway..moot point... I am sure Charlie will make a mod that will make his trigger work legal for production.. Glock does not have and probably never will have a "Custom Shop". and Glock should come out with a Custom Shop..why not... Edited February 9, 2006 by eerw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 The overtravel adjustment is internal, legal, for now. On my G34..which I do not have anymore..you could see it at the back of the trigger from the side of the gun... anyway..moot point... I am sure Charlie will make a mod that will make his trigger work legal for production.. and Glock should come out with a Custom Shop..why not... Ah, ok, I get it now. The one in my G34 is internal. He must have changed it somewhere along the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCK Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 and Glock should come out with a Custom Shop..why not... Why? When you polish a turd, its still a turd Just kidding, don't flame me, I have nothing against Glocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Rodgers Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 A few years ago I had an aftermarket Glock trigger with an external overtravel adjustment screw. I was going to the Nationals, so I sent an inquiry to John Amidon. His response was that since it was external - it was illegal in Production. Too bad I waited until after I purchased it to ask. $ down the drain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big daddy Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 So how many people with the Vanek trigger are actualy going to toss out a $300 job. There are other trigger jobs and drop in parts that do the same thing so I don't see it as being an advantage over any other trigged mod. With that said who would know the differance unless it was a major match. And yes I do have his triggers in my G24 and G35 both Limited of corse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCK Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 What bothers me most I think is that people are saying, "whos going to notice?". A ruling is a ruling and that should be the way people compete, by the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 What bothers me most I think is that people are saying, "whos going to notice?". A ruling is a ruling and that should be the way people compete, by the rules. I shoot two matches a month at clubs where John Amidon shoots. I think I'll make my gun righteous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 What bothers me most I think is that people are saying, "whos going to notice?". A ruling is a ruling and that should be the way people compete, by the rules. I shoot two matches a month at clubs where John Amidon shoots. I think I'll make my gun righteous. Or yell at him a lot and ask him "Why man, why?" a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 What bothers me most I think is that people are saying, "whos going to notice?". A ruling is a ruling and that should be the way people compete, by the rules. I shoot two matches a month at clubs where John Amidon shoots. I think I'll make my gun righteous. Or yell at him a lot and ask him "Why man, why?" a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 What bothers me most I think is that people are saying, "whos going to notice?". A ruling is a ruling and that should be the way people compete, by the rules. I shoot two matches a month at clubs where John Amidon shoots. I think I'll make my gun righteous. Or yell at him a lot and ask him "Why man, why?" a lot. Oh, don't worry he'll pay for this. J/K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I'm not going to the Nat or an area match so I am going to keep shooting it until somebody actually sees it and asks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 What bothers me most I think is that people are saying, "whos going to notice?". A ruling is a ruling and that should be the way people compete, by the rules. I shoot two matches a month at clubs where John Amidon shoots. I think I'll make my gun righteous. I shoot every match with Bill Seevers and if I knew something was illegal, I would not use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 What bothers me most I think is that people are saying, "whos going to notice?". A ruling is a ruling and that should be the way people compete, by the rules. I shoot two matches a month at clubs where John Amidon shoots. I think I'll make my gun righteous. I shoot every match with Bill Seevers and if I knew something was illegal, I would not use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Aftermarket guide rods DO need to be banned in the same manner that the Vanek and the CC XD mag release mod were. Bruce, the problem here isn't rule consistency, it's the consistency and timeliness of the interpretations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Marques Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Hey guys-I shoot a G35-how much better is the trigger reset with the Vanek? You can get a light pull with a reduced power striker spring-just gotta use Fed. primers-but I know what you are saying-alotta money and now against the rules. Nobody flame me for this 20/20 hindsight ... .....but.........why didn't anybody ask before they spent the money? All it takes is an email to JA. I did this when I wanted a stepped front sight on my Production gun and asked before I went thru the gyrations. I still have the email even though I don't have the sight anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryucasta Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 (edited) Gentlemen, I own over 6 Vanek Triggers starting back from 2002 time frame to today. If you look at the pictures I'm providing the G35 has one of his first trigger jobs, in it you see an external modification. The G20 has a trigger that he did for me less than 3 weeks ago and it has no external changes. So if you ask me I think what we have here is a tempest in a tea pot. BTW, they both have the same pull weight 1.4 pounds G35_Circa_2002.pdf G20_Circa_2006.pdf Edited February 9, 2006 by ryucasta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 (edited) Gentlemen,I own over 6 Vanek Triggers starting back from 2002 time frame to today. If you look at the pictures I'm providing the G35 has one of his first trigger jobs, in it you see an external modification. The G20 has a trigger that he did for me less than 3 weeks ago and it has no external changes. So if you ask me I think what we have here is a tempest in a tea pot. BTW, they both have the same pull weight 1.4 pounds ryucasta, What they are calling an external mod is the black spot just above the trigger safety pivot. That's where the trigger bar pivot used to be. Here is my stock G34 trigger and the Vanek trigger I just took out of the gun. Big Pic link: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v320/Geo...nNePa/Vanek.jpg ETA: This is what we are talking about. Not as some have opined that the trigger was moved from where it was in stock form, of course that couldn't happen. ETA:Thanks to Singlestack for resizing the pic for me. Edited February 9, 2006 by GeorgeInNePa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryucasta Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 (edited) George, Thanks for pointing it out I was under the impression it had to do with the screw that you see in the G35. Anyway doesnt really matter to me since I don’t compete in Production. And like I stated in another thread USPSA should just follow the same guidelines as the Production Division (Minimum trigger pull 2.27 kg (5lbs) for first shot) of International IPSC that way there is no misunderstanding of the rules. Edited February 9, 2006 by ryucasta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 George,Thanks for pointing it out I was under the impression it had to do with the screw that you see in the G35. Anyway doesnt really matter to me since I don’t compete in Production. And like I stated in another thread USPSA should just follow the same guidelines as the Production Division (Minimum trigger pull 2.27 kg (5lbs) for first shot) of International IPSC that way there is no misunderstanding of the rules. Doesn't that give the DA guns an advantage? Even just a perceived advantage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Doesn't that give the DA guns an advantage? Even just a perceived advantage? Depends. The trigger pull on your first shot is different from every other trigger pull you make. That's a disadvantage in some ways. Dave S seems to do just fine shooting abroad w/ a Production gun and continuous 5lb trigger pull - against DA guns.... It comes down to what you're used to, for the most part... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 IIRC, The BOD is the final authority on NROI Rules interpretations. Perhaps, appeals should be drafted to your area directors......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Doesn't that give the DA guns an advantage? Even just a perceived advantage? Depends. The trigger pull on your first shot is different from every other trigger pull you make. That's a disadvantage in some ways. Dave S seems to do just fine shooting abroad w/ a Production gun and continuous 5lb trigger pull - against DA guns.... It comes down to what you're used to, for the most part... Yea, I'll grant you that. I just put the gun back together, all I can say is ... yuck. It'll take a few hundred rounds to make it right again. I have a match on Sunday, after the first stage it probably won't matter anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay1 Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 A comment on interpretations vs. rule changes and rule stability: by this I mean that the rule has always been there that no external mods are allowed. OK, so I can see that this is an external mod. I understand why the ruling came down the way that it did. As far as changing our rules to be the same as IPSC rules that's a whole different thread, but let't not change rules on a whim because we don't like the interpretation that just came out. There is a good reason why we have a US version of the rules. Trigger jobs have been legal for a long, long time as long as they are internal. No need to change that now. On aftermarket guide rods, it would seem to follow the same guidelines as an external mod as far as production goes since there isn't a specific rule allowing it like there is for milled slides, grip tape etc. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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