Reloading Shotgun Shells

[Jim Norman]

I am looking at reloading Shotgun shells.

I hear good and bad about the SL900, the Hornady 336 and the various MECs. What is the opinion of all of you all?

Also any other info that anyone wants to pass along. I did a search here, but unless I asked the questions wrong, I didn't find much info.

TIA

Jim Norman

Edited January 18, 2006 by Jim Norman

[D.Hayden]

Others to look at:

Ponsness Warren

http://www.reloaders.com/

Spolar

http://www.spolargold.com/spolar.htm

I have a PW, but I would look hard at the Dillon if I was doing it again.

[Clay1]

The Dillon seems to be the ticket these days. I loaded over 10,000 rounds one season on my Mec 9000G. It's a nice unit but I think I would opt for the Dillon these days. They are not my units, I'm not selling anything, but I did see two of the Dillons on Ebay yesterday while looking through the Dillon stuff for sale.

Rick

[calhunter]

I have a SL900 and love it! I bought it when they first came out (waited about 6 months for it). I shoot 200-300 rounds a week. If you are going to use it for Trap or Skeet it is a great machine. Since you didn't say what you are going to use it for here are a few of my observations on it.

Pick one type of hull and stay with it. I use Win AA. If you use multiple types or brands of hulls you will drive yourself nuts trying to tweak it for every change.

It does not like shot sizes larger than 6. They tend to get stuck in the funnel portion of the shot drop tube and usually drop right after the shell plate rotates.

Only loads 2 3/4" shells

If your familiar with or own a XL650 it is the same basic platform, but most of the small parts do not interchange.

If you are going to use anything but a single piece wad (shot cards, buffers etc) buy a single stage press.

If you are going to load multiple gauges, I load 12 & 20, it is the only way to go.

[Irishlad]

I think a lot depends on how much shooting(reloading) you plan on doing.

I can only comment on the MEC's and a PW. And I only worked the PW several times but didn't own one.

Not knowing what you need I'd recommend a MEC Grabber. For @$300 you get a reliable, very durable machine that you can load( and box) about 450-500 an hour with practice.

About 300-350 an hour if you are leisurely and enjoying "life".

It doesn't auto advance like their 9000 series but I don't see any time savings IMO. But if you like auto advance, go the 9000 route.

The one slap on MEC's, IMO, is the collet resizer. It must be adjusted properly and kept clean or it will cause problems. If you don't need to resize each time, simply remove the "nut" in the back and it won't resize...meaning less effort and faster to load. I use Remington STS hulls about 15 times so I only resize when I buy once fired hulls, not fired out of my gun(O/U). If I wasn't so cheap I'd buy new shells and never resize.

As mentioned by calhunter, use one hull and adjust the machine for it, and then leave it alone.

Good luck

[3GunF1Guy]

Get a Ponsness/Warren it is the "Dillon" of shotgun reloaders. I looked hard at all of the reloaders and the Dillion 900 is the WORST of all the shotgun reloaders except for the Lee. The Spolar is just like a P/W but 3 times the money. For example I own a P/W 2000 (900) I can take the crapiest shells like the Estate the Federal Top Gun or the Winchester game loads (not the AA ones) and it will make shell that are BETTER than the factory. If you load Win AA or Rem STS hulls the shells come out of the P/W are a thing of beauty. The P/W and the Spolar are the only loaders that support the hull all the way through the loading process. This prevents buckled or crushed shells while loading. It also sizes the entire hull from the base up to almost the top of the hull. The P/W also has a 3 station crimp that puts a taper crimp on the hulls just like the factory shells (this makes reloaded hulls run better in semi-auto shotguns). Untill you have used a P/W you do not know what you have been missing. Two nights ago I loaded 500 rds on the P/W with 100% of the hulls coming out perfect.

Scott

[Patrick Sweeney]

When you go to load, there is no such thing as "working up" shotgun loads. You use the data in a load exactly as presented. if it doesn't work, try another. Shotguns work at relatively low pressure (under 12,000PSI) and are built for it. Odd combinaitons of wad, hull and powder that don't appear much different can have impressive pressure differences.

That said, I've never had a reason to deviate from a Winchester AA hull, 1-1/8 ounce winchester or claybuster wad, and 20 grains of 452AA. Of course, once my supply of 452AA runs out, I'll have to start over. (Oh, a charge bar marked for 1-1/8 ounces of shot, too.)

[smokshwn]

Jim

+10 on Scott's post.

I absolutely love my Dillon 650 but there is no way that anything other than the Spolar will compete with a PW. In my former shooting life I reloaded well over 250K shotgun shells. Probably better than 200k on a PW 800C. If you are going to load any quantity at all, 5k or more a year, there really is no other choice.

Good Luck, Craig

[Jim Norman]

Thank you to everyone that replied here. After reading your posts, factoring in the cost of a decent volume press and the reloading supplies, I have decided that unless I choose to stop shooting USPSA Pistol and switched over entirely to shooting clays of one type or another that there just is no current financial justification to reload shotgun. I get Estate for 35 a case and AA is available at 45. If I were to switch up to AA, maybe I could justify it, but at my level of shooting, I don't see it. Even then, I think I would be better served to find a way to buy real bulk as in 10,000 rounds at a time rather than spend my time reloading.

Again, thank you all very much for your input.

Jim Norman

[AlamoShooter]

Thank you to everyone that replied here. After reading your posts, factoring in the cost of a decent volume press and the reloading supplies, I have decided that unless I choose to stop shooting USPSA Pistol and switched over entirely to shooting clays of one type or another that there just is no current financial justification to reload shotgun. I get Estate for 35 a case and AA is available at 45. If I were to switch up to AA, maybe I could justify it, but at my level of shooting, I don't see it. Even then, I think I would be better served to find a way to buy real bulk as in 10,000 rounds at a time rather than spend my time reloading.

Again, thank you all very much for your input.

Jim Norman

Good way to go. the case price has gon down and the quality up, unlike rimfire ammo

I use the shotgun press to custom a light load with slow powder so I can shoot more in one day. our Dillon900 is grate but it has dust on it , I have a Hornady that has not seen light in 2years

Edited January 20, 2006 by AlamoShooter

[smokshwn]

Jim,

In all honesty, good choice. There is not much to gain performance by reloading shotgun shells in comparison to pistol or rifle reloading. If you buy loaded ammo in bulk you can get damn close to the price it costs you reloading. Essentially loading 12ga clays game loads is alot like loading 9mm from a cost standpoint. Your time better not be too valueable or the cost savings disappears in a hurry. I should have pointed out that most of that reloading was done as a young teenager so essentially the old man had a free labor source:)

Take care, Craig

[Clay1]

Jim, If you are a skeet shooter the ranges are close and high performance loads aren't what you need, so buy the cheap stuff and be happy. As a sporting clays competitor I found it to my advantage to use higher quality components. Always hard shot (magnum shot) with good wads and good powder in good hulls. If they had the tiniest of tears in the hulls they were gone.

When loading premium components over buying premium shells I found the savings to be substantial. Only you can make that determination. Yes the PW or Spolar are great machines, but if you are not using any machine right now a Mec 9000G at under $300 will get you saving money and making nice shells in a hurry. If you want to trade up you will be able to get most of your money back out of that machine. I loaded 10,000 rounds on one in a single season. If I would have bought premium shells I would have only been able to shoot about 5000 rounds. I think that I saved close to 50% when buying in bulk a couple times a year. I bought shot by the ton and usually 24 pounds of powder at a time (3, 8 pound canisters of Clays).

Just something to think about. Oh, and by the way, I just started loading for 9mm after shooting over 10,000 rounds of Blazer last year. The Blazer is great stuff at a great price but I wanted to shoot a 147 grainer out of my 9. So custom ammo is a wonderful thing even if you don't save much.

Rick

[Jim Norman]

Clay,

THanks again. If I get in that far I will revisit the idea. Right now, Estate and S&B are about the same as loading. Winchester AA I'd save about $2 a box.

As to loading for pistol, been there since I started. THe savings and the accuracy are just too much to pass up.

Jim

[Hank Ellis]

I've been putzing around with skeet and trap lately and considering shotshell reloading also. As with Jim, unless I quit IPSC and start busting clays exclusively, it doesn't pay off.

Rio shells through the trap range will go for #3.80 / box. Winchester AA at Academy will go for $4.85 / box. Reloading using decent components and free hulls will save me a whopping .39 cents / box over the Rios'. Look at shotshell reloading like reloading 9mm. You don't reload 9mm to save money.

When I asked the clays Yoda about the Rios' performance he said something to the effect that they pattern fine through his guns and the clay bird doesn't know the difference.

Shotshell reloading cost calculator link.

Edited January 24, 2006 by Hank Ellis

[Irishlad]

I still reload shotshells, but no doubt shotshell reloading is down I would guess.

My casual observation is that reloading componants, Lead in particular, has gone up quite a bit in the last several years, but the new shells haven't reflected the cost increases that I've experienced...yet anyway. I'm not sure why unless they "lock in" lead "futures" etc, or we're being "hosed" on the bagged shot.

Just as a useless sidenote: I think powder has really gone up the most in the last 20 years of reloading.

Good calculator that Hank Ellis listed.

[tightloop]

Go in with your buds and buy a quantity of shells, 10k or more and you can get

Clays type shells for less than you can load them....Still shooting up the B&P's I bought for 3.25 a box delivered...

[ricciardelli]

If you are loading for a single gauge, the MEC 650 is good. If you are loading a LOT of a single gauge, the MEC 9000G is great.

If you are loading several gauges, then get a MEC 600.

[Hank Ellis]

Too bad I can't edit my previous post. Things have changed a bit and I have started reloading shotshells. A couple reasons.

-Cost savings.

Those cheap Rio shells from the gun club I mentioned are no more. The Wally World Winchester value packs don't perform for me. Tried the Estates and although they did pretty well I have to mail order them. Shipping ate up any savings. So it's back to the old standard. Win AA at Academy for $4.97 on sale and $5.17 normally.

Using the following components: WST at $58 / 4lbs, Win WAA12 wads at $5.19 / 250, Win 209 primers at $25.99 / 1000, Lawrence shot at $26.59 / 25lbs, and free hulls, I came up with a reloaded cost of $3.99 a box. Not spectacular but a savings none the less.

Switching to Clays and Claybuster wads brings the reloaded cost down to $3.71 a box. A bit better. The major cost in reloading shotshells is the shot. The local gun club does a bulk buy a couple times a year and they are able to get the price down to $18 / 25lbs. That gets the reloaded price down to $3.10 a box. Now we're talking.

-Performance

Those El Cheapo shells just didn't work for me. Didn't like that some didn't feed right, some felt a bit 'light', some didn't bust the bird when it should have. My reloads are on par with factory Win AA shells. Trust in your ammo is a something required for total shooting performance.

-Custom Loads

Something I haven't pursued but I have thought about. The shotgun PF is 520 and popper calibration is used with 1oz load at 1180 fps. Your generic light target load is 1 1/8oz at 1145 fps for a PF of 563. I'm thinking you could lighten up the loads a bit to say 540 PF and still be safe at the chrono and steel. 1oz at 1235 or 1 1/8oz at 1100 fps. Something to think about.

FWIW: I decided on the Mec Grabber as my press. Found one on eBay for $157 shipped. Toss in a universal charge bar and few other goodies and I got set up for $225. At the rate I'm shooting it will pay for itself in about 10 months. It's got its quirks but once adjusted it turns out fine shells at a reasonable rate.

[uscbigdawg]

Mec 9000G was the ticket for me. Progressive and rocks! Bangs out quality ammo and it is very affordable. A buddy when I lived in KC told that while the PW's are good, they are expensive and as I was used to Dillon service, I would be more than a little upset at paying for replacement parts.

The Mec's are very user friendly and at least in my experience don't tend to break easy.

As for load data, exactly what Patrick said. You do EXACTLY what they say with regards to shot, wad and powder combos.

As for what to get? You can buy the name brand wads, but the cheap Gamegetter (I think) wads that are advertised as "the same as Winchester AA's" are the only way to go. After that, Winchester AA or Remington STS hulls are the heat!

Good luck!

Rich

[sargenv]

You can buy the name brand wads, but the cheap Gamegetter (I think) wads that are advertised as "the same as Winchester AA's" are the only way to go.

Long time since the thread was active, but the brand of the wads is "Claybuster".

And they make everyone else's wads, not just Winchesters..

Vince

[RePete]

You can buy the name brand wads, but the cheap Gamegetter (I think) wads that are advertised as "the same as Winchester AA's" are the only way to go.

Long time since the thread was active, but the brand of the wads is "Claybuster".

And they make everyone else's wads, not just Winchesters..

Vince

Claybusters are great, but there is a downside to them.

If you shoot when the weather gets cold (-5C), the petals become less flexible and the shot string can come out as a slug or a lot tighter.

So if you shoot during the winter, mark you boxes to relect which wad is loaded in the hull.

RePete.

[HSMITH]

Agree, cheap wads don't perform well in the cold. I haven't shot shotguns seriously for a couple years but I have in the past and have a good bit of experience. Duster wads are as good as genuine AA in warm weather but will actually break if it gets down around freezing or colder. Claybuster wads won't break, but they will get silly if you run them on the pattern board. You won't get that out of genuine AA wads or premium Remington wads. Different plastics that will tolerate big differences in temperature cost more money, and that is why good wads cost more.

The 9000G is what I ran most of the reloads on in 12 and 20. The press is a lot like a Lee Loadmaster, when it runs it runs like a press that costs many times more money. It CAN be a PITA though, once you learn the couple little tricks keeping one running is a breeze and 500 rounds an hour consistently isn't very hard to do. They really are a bargain for $300. If you spend triple the money you won't even get close to double the production.

[JD45]

From what I've heard, right now is the time to stock up on shotshells or components. They say that a bag of shot and a flat of shells is going to go through the roof next year.

If you do reload, and could afford to buy enough shot and primers to last a year or more, you will really save over factory loads because of the projected price jump.

[uscbigdawg]

Revisiting this after some time. On the price increase, I've seen it on primers out here in the east, but after talking to my father back home, prices are what they've always been.

That said, the serious shotgun shooters that I know don't tend to buy shot by the 10-20# area, they do group buys and are getting tons of powder, wads and primers in the count of over a million (literally) and then going from there. This is usually a twice a year order for them, and it's when the bottom feeders of the shotgun sports (myself and friends) can get our little bits of primers and shot that we want/need.

Like I said in another thread, I though IPSC & 3-Gun was expensive until I started playing around more in the scattergun sports. Still a ton of fun though.

Rich

[Irishlad]

Good time to consider 1 oz or 7/8 oz loads for 12 gauge. Save a fair amount per shell compared to 1 1/8.

I've "read", or maybe it was wishful thinking, that lead prices are likely to come down as the price is reaching "maximum" for manufacturers...since over 70% of the lead goes to batteries. Translated, I believe they are going to increase the supply of lead. I get the impression they just didn't produce enough lead for the sales...meaning they "forecasted" the demand improperly. I'm debating whether to wait to buy lead or not. Not sure what to do.

I think it's getting to the point where shooting will be reduced if this continues.