Is one red dot optic actually any better than another?

[IHAVEGAS]

Have only been shooting red dots on pistols for a year so I am just trying to figure things out. 

When I compare my sight versus my buddies sight versus my other buddies sight, I just don’t see any difference. With every one I get a nice clear picture of the target, a bright dot that is easy to see, and I am not aware of the rim around the glass blocking my view. 

 

For those who have switched to different dots for performance improvements, can you tell me what I am not considering? I get it that features and convenience and reliability and dot size preferences factor in but am not able to think of any reason why I could shoot better with one brand of dot versus another. 

[Cuz]

1 hour ago, IHAVEGAS said:

Have only been shooting red dots on pistols for a year so I am just trying to figure things out. 

When I compare my sight versus my buddies sight versus my other buddies sight, I just don’t see any difference. With every one I get a nice clear picture of the target, a bright dot that is easy to see, and I am not aware of the rim around the glass blocking my view. 

 

For those who have switched to different dots for performance improvements, can you tell me what I am not considering? I get it that features and convenience and reliability and dot size preferences factor in but am not able to think of any reason why I could shoot better with one brand of dot versus another. 

 

If you'd mentioned which optic you are using and which ones of your buddies you compared it to, we would be better able to answer that question.  There are a lot of variables with red dots (and/or green dots).  Dot size, brightness, number of brightness settings, window size, refresh rate.  Everything matters, but it matters differently to different people.

 

Strictly speaking of red dots on handguns, I started with Holosun 507c red dots and thought I liked them, until I tried the larger 5moa dot and slightly bigger window on the SRO optic.  Then I preferred that.  Then I tried a Shield RMSx for an even bigger window and 8moa dot, but the refresh rate annoys me, the dot leaves a trail when transitioning, and I learned (for me) that having a dot that you can't control the brightness on may be fine (and is preferred) on a carry gun, but doesn't work in competition.  Then I tried a Sig Romeo3 Max with 6moa and that became my new favorite red dot.  It has a nice crisp clear dot, huge window, and plenty of brightness settings, but, they are expensive.  I just recently bought a Canik Mecanic M03 red dot, just because it was so damn cheap ($150) with a 6moa dot size.  I continue to be amazed by this dot, but I also found that it really needs an extra brightness setting or two between the highest setting and one click down.  It can go from just a little too bright, to not bright enough when outdoors.  But, indoors, it works fine.  I've only shot with it a handful of times, but for the money, it is a great red dot, if it holds up.  It will most likely end up on my backup guns, or loaner guns.  Now, I need a new red dot for my primary competition Steel Challenge gun and I want to try a bigger dot size, so I was looking at the two newcomers on the market, the Sig Romeo3 Max Pro, or the CMore RTS3.  The current black friday deals and fact that it is in stock convinced me to try the CMore RTS3 with a 9moa dot.  I sure hope it's at least as good as my current Romeo3 Max red dot.

 

So, that's 5 different brands of red dots I've tried in about 3 years time.  Not to mention at least 3 other brands/models that I have tried and moved on from (more Holosuns, Burris FastFire, etc.) and they are all different.

 

If you can't tell the difference at all, stop looking, buy yourself a Mecanic M03 for $150 and be very happy with it.  You'll end up saving a lot of money you can put towards ammo...

 

-Cuz

 

 

 

 

[Chutist]

You will not "shoot better" with one dot over another... There are some that are good enough that they are not a distraction - Bright, clear glass, durable.... The SRO WAS the standard but has some challengers of late...There is a reason the Holosun 507 Comp is very popular.  All the positives of the SRO and Sig Max without the 700 price tag.  The Vortex Defender XL is also breaking into the top tier.... and it's on sale for $199 at Scheels right now, that's a bargain.  I bought a 5 MOA one just as a backup:

https://www.scheels.com/p/84382913596/?queryID=be54e0275e3c87911dc5638a56832554

 

Also pay attention to the mount plate, some are better than others.... 

[IHAVEGAS]

6 hours ago, Cuz said:

If you'd mentioned which optic you are using and which ones of your buddies you compared it to, we would be better able to answer that question. 

 

Running an aim point micro T2 on a rifle and for my CO pistols I picked Leupold DPP, one 6moa and I believe the smaller dot is either 2.5 or 3.0 . One of my friend's is a Trijicon SRO, I don't remember the pedigree on the other friend's optic. 

 

I suppose I am in the 

7 hours ago, Cuz said:

If you can't tell the difference at all, stop looking,

camp. I can tell the difference, but I can't tell a difference that leads me to believe that this would not hold true for me 

 

2 hours ago, Chutist said:

You will not "shoot better" with one dot over another...

 

I appreciate the responses. 

[2MoreChains]

I’m more of a pick one and practice and haven’t experimented much between all the different brands out there, but I will say my brain seems to react best to a 5-ish MOA dot better than other sizes, circle-dot reticle, or chevron.  I went with the Trijicon SRO in 5 MOA and that’s been working well enough that I haven’t felt the need to try anything else.  Well, kind of but more on that later.  

 

Part of my choice had to do with the different mounting footprints out there and the fact I prefer direct milled over plate mounting systems.  So going direct milled on my main comp guns means I’m sticking with the RMR/SRO/Holosun footprint at least for my pair of Shadow 2’s and one other CZ.  

 

That being said, I recently got my old 9mm 2011 STI out of the safe and had it milled for a SRO (guy on this forum did the milling).  I chose to go with a plate system this time around since the 1911/2011 slides with rear serrations are a little too narrow for the SRO footprint and I had an extra SRO laying around.  

 

I have another 2011 in the safe (in .40S&W like a lot of you guys) and I’ve been contemplating getting a 9mm top end made for it and getting it milled for a red dot.  

 

I have a Vortex Defender ST that I picked up off a prize table and it sits on my Steel Challenge gun.  So far so good, I like the dot, controls are usable, window is a tad small but functional, so maybe the next dot will be the Defender XL. The main reason I’m looking at the Defender XL is because it uses the DPP/RMSc footprint which I believe is narrow enough to direct mill a 2011 slide.  

 

 

[MoNsTeR]

I don't think it matters a whole lot. That said...

 

Just yesterday I took the 507Comp off my Prodigy and put a Swampfox Justice II back on. I tried shooting the 507Comp with the "dot + 8moa circle" (it's way bigger than 8moa I'm certain) reticle and that was very distracting. I tried just the circle and that was still too visually busy. That leaves just the 2moa dot which is way too small, so it's back to a simple 6moa dot.

 

I have a Mecanik M03 that I picked up just because it was so cheap and has the 6moa dot I like, but just in test fitting it and dry firing for a few minutes, I find the "ears" very distracting. I expect I wouldn't see them when I'm focused on executing a stage, but I'm not going to risk putting it on my main gun until I'm sure.

 

I also have a Gideon Omega. The shape of it and the slim bezel are nice, but the 3moa is just too small.

 

I do think the small dots would be okay turned up to nuclear brightness. But I shot 6 and 8 minute C-More dots for years and that still feels like the sweet spot.

 

Bottom line, I think as long as the durability is there, and you find the reticle and bezel visually acceptable, they're all basically the same.

[RangerTrace]

East of use should be considered too.  I'm not a fan of Holosun's battery screw.  I have more DPPs than any other optic and me, the lens is the clearest of all.  RMR/SRO has a little fish eye distortion for me.  My one complaint for DPP is the brightness adjustment.

[IHAVEGAS]

1 hour ago, RangerTrace said:

My one complaint for DPP is the brightness adjustment.

 

That took me some getting used to but after using one exclusively for the last 6 months it seems very easy to live with. 

[Blackstone45]

19 hours ago, Chutist said:

You will not "shoot better" with one dot over another... There are some that are good enough that they are not a distraction - Bright, clear glass, durable.... The SRO WAS the standard but has some challengers of late...There is a reason the Holosun 507 Comp is very popular.  All the positives of the SRO and Sig Max without the 700 price tag.  The Vortex Defender XL is also breaking into the top tier.... and it's on sale for $199 at Scheels right now, that's a bargain.  I bought a 5 MOA one just as a backup:

https://www.scheels.com/p/84382913596/?queryID=be54e0275e3c87911dc5638a56832554

 

Also pay attention to the mount plate, some are better than others.... 

As a European, seeing the price of that Defender XL is making me cry

[LHshooter]

Couldn't believe the price for the Defender XL at Scheels - thanks for posting the sale news. Bought an 8 MOA version even though I really don't need it right now. Too good of a deal to pass up - I'm surprised they were still in stock.

[Chutist]

4 hours ago, Blackstone45 said:

As a European, seeing the price of that Defender XL is making me cry

Sorry man, same way I feel about German Beer and Italian wine.

 

3 hours ago, LHshooter said:

Couldn't believe the price for the Defender XL at Scheels - thanks for posting the sale news. Bought an 8 MOA version even though I really don't need it right now. Too good of a deal to pass up - I'm surprised they were still in stock.

So I did find out some of them are marked "CompDot".  The story is Vortex had a deal with someone to include them on some factory guns but that fell though. Scheels must have bought a ton!  

 

[DavidSeavey]

i won an ST smaller version at a match raffle and i like it just fine, just grabbed a pair of those since that's real cheap, thanks!

[FTP_Shooting_Sports]

There certainly is a difference!  If you are talking about competition, you want bigger glass, a smaller frame and a very bright dot that remains crips (not starbursting) under the bright sun. The other noticeable difference between brands will be glass/coating quality. The cheaper dots often will have lots of lens flare, artifacts and even double dots under certain sunlight conditions.

 

 

[lroy]

Was wondering this also. There's a ton of new and more competitively priced options out, but they haven't been proven like the mainstays (trijicon/holosun).

 

Sure they're more affordable, but if I can't trust it to not s#!t the bed, I'm not sure it's worth it. Yes warranties are a thing, and I am aware that every brand can go down. 

 

The only reviews I see for newer dots are the initial impressions that are sent by the manufacturers, which makes me fairly weary.

[2MoreChains]

I think most people here will agree that all red dots eventually die.  Sometimes it’s electronics, other times it’s issues with the lens coming loose from the housing. 

 

Only question is how many rounds can you get out of it before it pukes and how good is the manufacturer’s CS/warranty.  

 

[IHAVEGAS]

Don't know in general. Did buy a used DPP and warranty replacement/repair on that was no hassle and didn't take forever.

[keeph8n]

I would say yes, but to a point. I’ve had quite a few different dots over the years. My long time go to for most applications was a 2.5MOA SRO. I’ve had trouble out of the last couple I’ve had, so I have branched out and have been super pleased with both the Defender XL and Romeo 3 XL I’ve tried. 
 

id say if you are happy with the offered features and clarity, then the only thing that really differentiates the dots is warranty. 

[Darkseid]

in the sense of battery life, i believe some are better than some.

[CHA-LEE]

Tunable brightness levels is important. Many of the red dots on the market have too wide of a brightness range. This results in one level being too dim and the next level up being too bright. A viable competition red dot needs beightness levels close enough to one another that you can set it to the perfect level for the given lighting conditions.
 

The next important factor to consider is Point of Impact shift at 20+ yards due to parallax. Every reflex style Red Dot sight has parallax issues. Its more of a matter of how bad is it. I have tested many Red Dot sights and many have horrible PoI shift due to Parallax when the dot is not in the center of the glass. Like 10+ inches of PoI shift at 20 yards bad. Usually, the more curved the glass is, the more parallax exists. 

 

For the shooters who are new to Red Dots, the most common bias is to use a brightness level that is way too bright. If the dot is as bright as the sun and blooming starburst then you will not be able to observe the major functional differences that exist from one model to the next. Turn the dot down to minimize or eliminate the bloom. Doing this will also help you stay Target focused. 

[IHAVEGAS]

On 12/1/2024 at 7:24 PM, CHA-LEE said:

Tunable brightness levels is important. Many of the red dots on the market have too wide of a brightness range. This results in one level being too dim and the next level up being too bright. A viable competition red dot needs beightness levels close enough to one another that you can set it to the perfect level for the given lighting conditions.
 

 

When you consider the sometimes fairly extreme variations in target lighting conditions while shooting a stage (targets facing into or away from the sun, clouds, sun in your eyes, etc) it seems like to shooter would need to develop a wide tolerance for dot brightness. 

[CHA-LEE]

21 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

When you consider the sometimes fairly extreme variations in target lighting conditions while shooting a stage (targets facing into or away from the sun, clouds, sun in your eyes, etc) it seems like to shooter would need to develop a wide tolerance for dot brightness. 

 

I agree with your comment. But I also know that most peoples default behavior when the dot is too bright is to become Dot Focused instead of Target Focused. If you can consistently maintain a hard Target Focus regardless of dot appearance or brightness then having gradual variations in brightness settings doesn't matter. In my experience, the number of shooters who can consistently maintain a hard Target Focus regardless of what the dot looks like are few and far between. For most everyone else, they need the ability to precisely tune the brightness of the dot to set it at the appropriate brightness level for the given lighting conditions.

[lroy]

I have a pretty funky astigmatism, but I was helping someone zero an old cmore slide ride and that was by far the crispestdot I've ever seen somehow. It had almost no starbursting for me even at a high brightness. Not sure what kind of voodoo they used. The dial adjustment knob also is pretty great for giving a ton of control over the levels. 

Edited Wednesday at 11:22 AM by lroy

[Fimrire_RongLifle]

on that note whats as close to clear as a slide ride? 507comp isnt it for me however let me experiment with green and red to determine red is better for me. Im using 6moa on Slideride and 8moa on 507comp.
Currently stuck with RMR footprint on all but one pistol.

[MikeyScuba]

2 hours ago, lroy said:

I have a pretty funky astigmatism, but I was helping someone zero an old cmore slide ride and that was by far the crispestdot I've ever seen somehow. It had almost no starbursting for me even at a high brightness. Not sure what kind of voodoo they used. The dial adjustment knob also is pretty great for giving a ton of control over the levels. 

Or what corners are the more modern dots cutting to make their smaller footprint.

 

I have sliderides on my 2011's, revos and PCC's.  My eyes have the trifocal lenses implanted and any sharp bright light starbursts at night.  So have all the dots I've tried except for the slideride.

[42ATK]

I’m in the same boat the slide ride is a perfect circle, everything else (including their RTS2 V5) starbursts