Shooting Unclassified In New Division

[TBF]

I am classified C in L10.

Want to shoot Limited at a major match.

I will not have enough Limited classifiers on record by the date of the match.

I have heard roumors of the

" automatically one class lower in a new division than your highest classification in any division " , is this BS ?

I just wondered.

I really don't want to shoot in U class.

Travis F.

[Merlin Orr]

" automatically one class lower in a new division than your highest classification in any division "

Yep, thats right. D shooter.

[Larry White]

I dont think that is true. You must have enough classifers on file to be classifed in the division you want to shoot or you will shoot unclassifed. Nothing automatic about it, however your classifaction, when you get classified, WILL NOT BE MORE THAN ONE CLASS BELOW YOUR HIGHEST.-------Larry

[Merlin Orr]

I dont think that is true. You must have enough classifers on file to be classifed in the division you want to shoot or you will shoot unclassifed. Nothing automatic about it, however your classifaction, when you get classified, WILL NOT BE MORE THAN ONE CLASS BELOW YOUR HIGHEST.-------Larry

What WAS I thinking? Larry is right.

[ChuckS]

I am pretty sure Larry nailed it. You will be U until 4 (or more classifiers are sent in). Once you get your first 4 (or more) in, you will be rated at the average of those classifiers OR one class below your highest classification which ever is higher.

Since this is USPSA/IPSC, there is one exception to that rule: The provisional single stack class will treat you as classified in your highest classification. I assume that if the PSS div becomes real, then it will follow the original rule.

Later,

Chuck

[Larry White]

I just went back and read the Provisional SS Division and Chuck is right too, it is an exception, the only one I see anywhere.------Larry

[Jim Norman]

Larry is correct, however the way that the new provisional Single Stack Division is being set-up probably makes a lot more sense.

PROPOSAL

You have no classifiaction in a particular divison, HOWEVER you do have a classification, you should shoot as the class you have until you get a classificatoin in the new division. At that time the new class you earn cannot be more than one class different from our highest classification.

In simple terms: I am an A Limited. I want to shoot SS, I start as an A, After submitting the requisite 4 classifers, I will get a classifiacion, no lower than B regardless of the actual score. In fact, since I am a B in everything else already, were I to actually classify in SS as an M, all my B's would move up to A.

If you are currently unclassiied across the board, then nothing would change, you shoot your first 4 matches as a U.

Simple, and arguable fair.

Jim Norman

[wgnoyes]

If you are currently unclassiied across the board, then nothing would change, you shoot your first 4 matches as a U.

Or shoot a special classifier match and get classified all at once.

[Jim Norman]

If you are currently unclassiied across the board, then nothing would change, you shoot your first 4 matches as a U.

Or shoot a special classifier match and get classified all at once.

Excellent, except that that may only occur once or twice a year in your area. (not Area) What I propose would place the shooter that is unclassified in a class close to his demonstared ability and allow him to compete immediately, rather than telling him wait, eventually you'll get classified.

Along those lines, the only problem I have with the new SS division is that if the division fails, a new shooter that has only ever shot in SS will after three years of competing, suddenly be unclassified again. Better if those classifers had rolled into L-10 which is the closest division.

My opinion only.

[Gary Stevens]

Jim, we are suggesting to people to obtain their origninal basic classification in L-10 if they want a to shoot Single Stack. Then if everything goes up in smoke, they will still have an L-10 classification.

Gary

[Jim Norman]

OK, So A newbie shoots his Single Stack in L-10, then goes on to shoot SS for the next three years, He has a D in L-10, SS goes away, he has to shoot to reclassify since his Very High C in SS just went away.

I understand that this is the way it is. I just think a couple small tweeks would be a good thing.

Count the SS as L-10 if SS goes away, and if we are trying to get the cross overs in, why tell them "we got this great new divison you;ll fitinto, but hey, first you need to shoot in the division that you didn't join USPSA to shoot in order to get a classifiaction to shoot int he division you wanted to?

I can see trying to explain this to a new shooter that is still struggling to understand how we score the match.

Jim

[Gary Stevens]

Remember the key word "Provisional". This is a shake down cruise. We need to identify any shortfalls and work on good solutions to them. I expect some issues to arise, some already have and I have taken note of them for possible future use. You can't tell if your new gun works without actually shooting it. Same thing here, we are going to find out what works, and fix what doesn't.

As with multi-gun, working out rules that are fine and dandy for the XYZ shooting event is not real hard. Working out rules that work from coast to coast, club to club, and are understandable to 15K members is a little harder.

Gary

[ChuckS]

OK, So A newbie shoots his Single Stack in L-10, then goes on to shoot SS for the next three years, He has a D in L-10, SS goes away, he has to shoot to reclassify since his Very High C in SS just went away.

---- snip ---

Jim

Jim,

That is not exactly how it will work. From the SS rules:

"Classifications: Individuals who chose to participate in the provisional division will be

assigned their highest classification on record. No classifier data will be input into the

classification system at this time."

The newbie in your example will never be C in SS unless he makes C in another division.

Later,

Chuck

[Jim Norman]

Then it is even worse, a Newbie has no classification, he cannot earn a class in the division we have set-up to attract him to the sport. Sort of like "You can't get there from here" You have to go shoot L-10 so you can shoot other than "U" in SS. Sorry, I like the idea of the new division,(a change of heart here), but I think that we should amend the criteria ASAP before we get to far into it. My belief is that this would make the likelyhood of success higher.

(inserted as an afterthought)

Maybe I am missing something here. Let's say a Newbie shoots and gets a "D" classificatoin in L-10, then goes on to get really good in SS, does he get moved up? Will he move to say an "A" class in SS? or after 3 years is he still competing as a "D"? If so, the newer Newbies (sorry) are not going to be real happy getting their butts handed to them by "D" that should be an "A". If a current shooter, that is say a "C" shoots SS, he is automatically a "C" in SS, if he moves up in say Open to M, des he move up to "M" or "A" in SS?

(end of inserted afterthought).

If you have a classification, your highest counts, not sure why this should be, it is your lowest in all other divisions, i.e., If I am an A Openm I shoot 4 matches in L-10 get a D percentage, I am stilla B in L-10. Why should I have to be an A in SS?

If I am a Newbie and come intot he sport, I shoot 4 classifiers and get an initial classification based upon my performance in the division I am shooting in.

Understood is the fact that we do not have a database of SS classifiers. Use L-10, it is a decent starting palce, for that matter, L-10 and Limited should really be the same. The classifers really are identical. (L1- El-Prez with a STI vs Limited EL-Perz with an STI, anyone see a difference?)

If this were done we have realistic playing field for all that chose to shoot the new division and if it for some reason doesn't make it, all the score simply go into L-10 and your classification, whatever it is would stand.

Not within my perview to change how it is being done, but and unless I have missed something big here, I can't see why this wouldn't work. In the meantime, we'll offer it as it is. Heck I might even shoot it once or twice just for memories. (Got to dust off the .45 dies and find where I put the 230 FMJ heads and large primers).

I was originally of the "this will dilute the sprot" group. I think that as long as we can continue to provide teh combined results so that we all know who is buying dinner, we are good to go.

Jim Norman

Edited January 11, 2006 by Jim Norman

[SRT Driver]

Noticed that USPSA has given everyone that is classified in a division a Single Stack classification. It equals your highest Class in any other division.

It looks like the only way you could shoot "U" in Single Stack is if you are unclassified in everything.

Also, from my read, classifier scores in the Single Stack division are not going to post for classification. Is this true?

[Alan Meek]

Noticed that USPSA has given everyone that is classified in a division a Single Stack classification. It equals your highest Class in any other division.

It looks like the only way you could shoot "U" in Single Stack is if you are unclassified in everything.

Also, from my read, classifier scores in the Single Stack division are not going to post for classification. Is this true?

SRT Driver,

Yes, USPSA will archive the classifiers for the Provisional Single Stack Division for the three years of evaluation. Gary Stevens has explained this in one of his previous posts.

For any competitor that does not have any classifications in any division and desires to participate in the Provisional Single Stack Division they should get their initial classification in L-10. Then if the provisional divsion is abolished they will have valid classification to continue particpating.

Alan

[Merlin Orr]

Then it is even worse, a Newbie has no classification, he cannot earn a class in the division we have set-up to attract him to the sport. Sort of like "You can't get there from here" You have to go shoot L-10 so you can shoot other than "U" in SS. Sorry, I like the idea of the new division,(a change of heart here), but I think that we should amend the criteria ASAP before we get to far into it. My belief is that this would make the likelyhood of success higher.

Jim Norman

All shooters holding no classification in USPSA are entered in seperate database as D Class.

(inserted as an afterthought)

Maybe I am missing something here. Let's say a Newbie shoots and gets a "D" classificatoin in L-10, then goes on to get really good in SS, does he get moved up? Will he move to say an "A" class in SS? or after 3 years is he still competing as a "D"? If so, the newer Newbies (sorry) are not going to be real happy getting their butts handed to them by "D" that should be an "A". If a current shooter, that is say a "C" shoots SS, he is automatically a "C" in SS, if he moves up in say Open to M, des he move up to "M" or "A" in SS?

(end of inserted afterthought).

Jim Norman

Shooter with a automatically established D Classification has his classifiers stored in same seperate database. Based on existing L10 classifier information he moves up through classes per SS performance. For shooters already classified in another division - Same criteria is used with SS as other divisions -Even though you start off equal to your highest division classification - No more than one class behind highest classification if you advance in another classification once you have established your "baseline" SS classification.

If you have a classification, your highest counts, not sure why this should be, it is your lowest in all other divisions, i.e., If I am an A Openm I shoot 4 matches in L-10 get a D percentage, I am stilla B in L-10. Why should I have to be an A in SS?

Not everything is perfect

Jim Norman

If I am a Newbie and come intot he sport, I shoot 4 classifiers and get an initial classification based upon my performance in the division I am shooting in.

Understood is the fact that we do not have a database of SS classifiers. Use L-10, it is a decent starting palce, for that matter, L-10 and Limited should really be the same. The classifers really are identical. (L1- El-Prez with a STI vs Limited EL-Perz with an STI, anyone see a difference?)

I agree

If this were done we have realistic playing field for all that chose to shoot the new division and if it for some reason doesn't make it, all the score simply go into L-10 and your classification, whatever it is would stand.

Sounds good.

Not within my perview to change how it is being done, but and unless I have missed something big here, I can't see why this wouldn't work. In the meantime, we'll offer it as it is. Heck I might even shoot it once or twice just for memories. (Got to dust off the .45 dies and find where I put the 230 FMJ heads and large primers).

I was originally of the "this will dilute the sprot" group. I think that as long as we can continue to provide teh combined results so that we all know who is buying dinner, we are good to go.

Jim Norman

[richardschennberg]

If your club has an unclassified shooter who is an USPSA member or who joins USPSA at your match, just let him shoot the classifier twice, once for SS score and once for L-10 classification. Also, if he zeroes his L-10 classifier, let him shoot it again. USPSA needs new and participating members, so we should make it reasonably easy to get started.