Carmoney Posted January 12, 2006 Author Share Posted January 12, 2006 Brownells has started carrying Ron Powers new cylinder stop (part# 713-000-066). Thanks for the tip, Dave. Brownells does have them in stock. I ordered one just now, mainly to see what it looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Also, did anyone notice the S&W cylinder shown in the "Insider" column in the last issue or two of American Handgunner? It showed some photos of how S&W used to repair damaged cylinder stop notches by inserting a small piece of steel into the side of the notch. I'd love to find out more details about how that was done. That might be interesting with the Ti cylinders.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Also, did anyone notice the S&W cylinder shown in the "Insider" column in the last issue or two of American Handgunner? It showed some photos of how S&W used to repair damaged cylinder stop notches by inserting a small piece of steel into the side of the notch. I'd love to find out more details about how that was done. That might be interesting with the Ti cylinders.... Certainly makes my ears perk up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 13, 2006 Author Share Posted January 13, 2006 Sounds to me like we need Ti inserts for our steel cylinders more than we need steel inserts for our Ti cylinders....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Sounds to me like we need Ti inserts for our steel cylinders more than we need steel inserts for our Ti cylinders....... The inserts I saw were very small half moon shaped pieces inserted in the inpact zone of the notch. It looked like it could be very effective, but quite labor intensive. My guess is that a new cylinder would be cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Berryhill Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 The inserts I saw were very small half moon shaped pieces inserted in the inpact zone of the notch. It looked like it could be very effective, but quite labor intensive. My guess is that a new cylinder would be cheaper. That may be true but a hardened steel insert may prolong the life of the cylinder, saving money in the long run. Of course if you're really yankin' on the trigger and the cylinder stop notch is hitting the cylinder stop notch hard something has to give, either the stop, the notch or the window in the frame. How do the titanium cylinders hold up to the impact compared to the stainless steel cylinders (all other things considered equal including the weight difference)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 How do the titanium cylinders hold up to the impact compared to the stainless steel cylinders (all other things considered equal including the weight difference)? I don't know. I posted pictures of the cylinders in their current condition on page one of this thread. The "A" gun is the top gun with the most rounds through it. The "A" gun has ~25k+ rounds through it with about 2,500 through the Ti cylinder. The "B" gun is a new gun with ~1500 rounds through it with about 500 rounds through the Ti cylinder. So if it is as good as the SS it'll be about this time next year before I know it. At this point it's anybody's guess. But if you dig around in the very dry and boring discussions regarding Ti physical characteristics including tensile, elongation, and fatigue characteristics, there is potential for them to last a very long time. Factoring in the reduced weight, everything interacting with the rotating mass of the cylinder should last longer even under competition stresses including hands, stars, stops and frames. It's an interesting study for me anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 I haven't seen Ron's part, but when I talked to him last Feb., he mentioned that the part was oversized. I suspect that for slower shooting DA and single action work, it will help stabilize the cylinder at lock-up. It is important to note that when the cylinder stop hits the impact surface of the cylinder, it almost never hits with the surfaces parallel. This is why the edge raises very prominently on the softer stainless cylinders. The two surfaces also make contact before the cylinder stop actually bottoms out in the CS slot. The faster the DA stroke, the heavier the loaded cylinder, the more deformation is apparent at the impact zone. As the cylinder stop wears a flat on it's horizontal surface(from dragging across the cylinder exterior), the surface area of it's vertical impact face begins to get smaller. This contributes to the failure. My 627 w/ Ti cylinder has been in service for well over a year now, and I dry fire it almost daily. Many of the drills have been to draw and (dry)fire 8 shots in under 2.0 sec. The Ti cylinder exhibits almost no wear across where the CS rides, and the vertical wall of the CS slots show little wear. I doubt that Smith will change it's heat treating procedures to acommodate the competition shooters segment of it's market. But they do have the ability to offer guns with the Ti cylinders which they already produce. Granted, Ti is not the solution for all aplications, but it does hold many of the answers for us as competitive revolver shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Berryhill Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Thanks Randy - It sounds like like the Ti cylinder is the way to go for this application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10mmdave Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 (edited) My 627 w/ Ti cylinder has been in service for well over a year now, and I dry fire it almost daily. Many of the drills have been to draw and (dry)fire 8 shots in under 2.0 sec. The Ti cylinder exhibits almost no wear across where the CS rides, and the vertical wall of the CS slots show little wear. Randy?? are you doing this dry firing with a clip full of dummy rnds ?? If your using snap caps there lighter than 6 rnds of 230 ball. Just wondering. woops, just saw tht your talking 38's not 45's. But the question still goes, do you have any weight in the cylinder?? Edited January 16, 2006 by 10mmdave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 I know it is smoke, mirrors, and alchemy...... but how about Cyro treating the cylinder since I know that it will if reported correctly harden the steel treated by rearranging the carbon in the steel. Would this be a benefit? Since it is not likely that S&W would reheat treat the cylinders can we find someone else to retreat them, or try something like the cyro. I am willing to sacrifice my 625 to try it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 Go ahead and sacrifice your 625--I'm not sending my gun off to some quack cryopractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted January 16, 2006 Share Posted January 16, 2006 Go ahead and sacrifice your 625--I'm not sending my gun off to some quack cryopractor. Punny, very punny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 16, 2006 Author Share Posted January 16, 2006 (I knew you'd appreciate that one, Walt!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 My 627 w/ Ti cylinder has been in service for well over a year now, and I dry fire it almost daily. Many of the drills have been to draw and (dry)fire 8 shots in under 2.0 sec. The Ti cylinder exhibits almost no wear across where the CS rides, and the vertical wall of the CS slots show little wear. Randy?? are you doing this dry firing with a clip full of dummy rnds ?? If your using snap caps there lighter than 6 rnds of 230 ball. Just wondering. woops, just saw tht your talking 38's not 45's. But the question still goes, do you have any weight in the cylinder?? I'm using old(read need of replacement) A-Zoom snap caps, but I'm pretty bad at mashing on the trigger during live fire too. SO far, the Ti 8 shot cylinder has been abused enough where damage should be showing on the impact surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 Randy, what are you doing for a chamfer on the Ti wheels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Lee Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Randy, what are you doing for a chamfer on the Ti wheels? Mike, I'm using a diamond burr to shape the chamfer. I'll get some info out on why I do the type of chamfer that's on the frankengun when I get some breathing room. On all the new 625's and 627's home chamfer do-it-yourselfers need to be aware that there are 2 legs(in opposition) that drive the cylinder rotation and two that help to stop the cylinder. If these legs get hogged out, it can affect timing of the cylinder, as well as cause them to break. The older 25's and earlier ones had the pins which helped with the load forces. The 325 cylinder assemblies have a pretty generous chamfer on them. A light polish with a craytex tip will smooth the surface nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty45 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Skip Chambers is back in Ohio! I think it might be time to try a Ti cylinder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waltermitty Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Skip Chambers is back in Ohio! I think it might be time to try a Ti cylinder! Dive in, the water's fine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Sorry to bring this back to the top. I was at a seminar with Jerry Miculek at S&W over the weekend. I asked him about his experiences with peening of cylinders and use of Ty cylinders. He stated his experience as never having had to replace a cylinder because of peening including his 27 that has over 800,000 rounds through it. As for Ty cylinders, he stated they may work fine for many but he has not tried it yet. His concern was lightening up the gun too much. He said he had asked S&W to harden the cylinders a little more but they are reluctant to do it for libility reasons (damn shylocks ) All in all it was a good Q & A period with him and he was very helpful. For me, it was the best part of the match as it was the poorest performance for me at any match I have ever been in. Moral of the story is Don;t have a tooth pulled before a major match. Pain is a distraction. (The cost of the surgery also spent the cash I had set aside for the Nationals ) Regards, Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brynjulv Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Hello. Bringing it up again. I dryfire a lot and try to reduse the wear on my 625. Installing a new cylinderstop tonight I assembled the gun without hand and firingpin. Seems to work for dryfirepractice. It will solve my peening problems and stop wadding up the firingpin spring. Can this solution create new problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 I dryfire a lot and try to reduse the wear on my 625. Installing a new cylinderstop tonight I assembled the gun without hand and firingpin. It will solve my peening problems and stop wadding up the firingpin spring. Without a hand the cylinder won't rotate so you'll definitely not be damaging the cylinder stop or cylinder notches. Your trigger pull will also be very different with the cylinder not rotating... As to wadding up firing pin springs, while you have the C&S firing pin out throw it in the garbage and install a .495 S&W pin or an Apex Tactical pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cd662 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 There's a guy in this neck of the woods that works for Smith and Wesson, he mentioned that the cylinder stop should be replaced every 1,000 cylinder revolutions or something like that (dry fire clicks and actual shots fired). That's a lot of replacing. Don't the cylinder stops require a bit of fitting, or are they mostly drop in? I have a replacement but I've never had a gun that needed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) There's a guy in this neck of the woods that works for Smith and Wesson, he mentioned that the cylinder stop should be replaced every 1,000 cylinder revolutions or something like that (dry fire clicks and actual shots fired). That's a lot of replacing. Don't the cylinder stops require a bit of fitting, or are they mostly drop in? I have a replacement but I've never had a gun that needed it. Yeah, I got that when my gun fired out of time, lead bullets so no damage thankfully. It was actually the spring but that was the advice, every 6k clicks. My open rev has more like 150k pulls on the trigger at least and the cyl stop is well worn but still stops. I just did a detail clean last night, the gun has alot of wear, was going to take some pics showing all the rub/wear points. edit...this is a great thread btw. I had a newly built/fitted 625 with brand new ti cyl start skipping with way less tthan 10k pulls on the trigger. It went back to the builder because it was not clear at all what was wrong, no peening, new stop, timing is perfection(literally, it is the most perfectly timed revolver ever). It turns out the scallop side of the notch on two charge holes had peened slightly and the stop was bouncing over the raised edge. It developed that issue in very few actual trigger pulls... Edited April 19, 2014 by seanc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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