Importance of 1911/2011 "trigger reset test"

[NateTheSkate]

Hello all,

 

I have a possibly stupid question... how important is the 'trigger reset test' as described in Kuhnhausen's book (I forget what page it's on, but I can try and find it if necessary).

 

The test I'm describing goes as follows:

• With the hammer down, pull the trigger fully to the rear and hold
• Pull the slide rearward until you hear the first 'click' of the sear engaging with the half-cock notch (3/8" or so)
• Return the slide to battery
• Release the trigger, and you should hear the 'click' of the disco reset.

 

In other words, the trigger should have enough pretravel to allow the disconnector to reset to the 'up' position behind the sear legs when the hammer is in the half-cock position. This is marked by a click and visual inspection should reveal the trigger to be fully reset.

 

I have some 1911/2011 builds that i have been tinkering with on-and-off for years, and one constant frustration I have had is that i have a lot of trouble getting pistols to pass this test. I have tried differnt trigger bows, discos etc. and some of the pistols I have assembled have passed and some never do, its infuriating. I understand how the little tabs at the front of the bow work, and trust me that isn't the issue. I have tried removing material from the front and back of the bow, and pretty much anything else I have thought up over the years and nothing has reliably solved the issue. It's almost like some 1911 frames (or 2011 grips) aren't machined enough at the front of the trigger bow area to provide the pretravel necessary to pass this test.

 

I went to the local gun shop recently and explained my issue to the gunsmith; he looked at me like I was off my rocker. I also tried the test on a few pistols in the shop; some passed but most didn't.

 

Am I understanding the test incorrectly? Or, is this a common problem? If so, is it a safety issue? Intuitively it doesn't seem like a safety issue, but if Kuhnhausen says it's important I'm inclined to believe him.

 

Long story short, I'mm frustrated and confused. If anyone could shed some proverbial light on the subject and/or ways to fix it It would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

 

[HOGRIDER]

@NateTheSkate  I'm in the camp of shooters/competitors that feel a certain amount of pre-travel is definitely necessary in order to have one of the 1911/2011's safety features fully functional!  And I agree with Bob Londrigan's assessment in his excellent Tuning and Maintenance publication:

 

https://www.brazoscustom.com/post/trigger-group-tuning-and-maintenance

 

Some competitors will disagree and feel that their fastest performances come from having little to no pre-travel.  But if it disables or causes the half-cock notch to be inoperable, I don't want to be put in that situation.  And to the best of my knowledge, this is one of the safety tests that USPSA performs at their upper/top level matches.

 

Having had a competition pistol develop hammer follow, thankfully during a practice session due to .008" pre-travel, is something I'll never have to deal with again!

 

My research has found that there are/have been many ways developed to create pre-travel when the use of a trigger with too long of a bow, a mis-formed (short) grip, or way out spec parts just don't allow an easy way to obtain that level needed for safe operation.  An older post with some good info:

 

https://www.1911forum.com/threads/how-to-gain-pretravel-made-public.264739/

 

HTHs!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tampa-XD45]

re: "I went to the local gun shop recently and explained my issue to the gunsmith" ... just remember the title of "gunsmith" is very loosely defined. 

 

For 1911/2011 work you really want to stick with gunsmiths that specialize in 1911s or custom 1911/2011 builders.

More info from the 1911 wizards:  https://www.youtube.com/@AtlasGunworks/search?query=trigger

https://www.pewpewtactical.com/1911-trigger-pretravel-overtravel/

 

Like HOGRIDER I also had a competition pistol develop hammer follow due to lack of adequate pre-travel.  Now I don't cut it that close on the adjustment.

 

BTW, if you're happy with your trigger and the gun is safe, I wouldn't worry too much about passing tests.  Just my 2 cents.

[shred]

Some competition hammers also relocate the half-cock notch, which can cause different things to happen.

 

[NateTheSkate]

2 hours ago, shred said:

Some competition hammers also relocate the half-cock notch, which can cause different things to happen.

 

I think this may be exactly what is happening, I can't believe I didn't think of this earlier.

 

I went over to my Dad's house today, he has a bunch of 1911's. Military and commercial. all the military ones passed the test, and all the commercial ones (which have all had work done by a 1911 smith up in Denver) passed the test EXCEPT the two that had EGW competition hammers.

 

I looked at the 2011 that is giving me trouble, and it too has an EGW competition hammer. I'm going to swap it out and see if that solves my "reset test" problem.

 

don't get me wrong, I LOVE EGW stuff, it's all top notch IMHO... but if i can solve this problem by swapping out the hammer, I will, if only to assuage my neuroses lol.

 

I'll give it a try and report back, thanks @shred!

 

 

[NateTheSkate]

3 hours ago, Tampa-XD45 said:

re: "I went to the local gun shop recently and explained my issue to the gunsmith" ... just remember the title of "gunsmith" is very loosely defined.

VERY loosely defined in my experience. The problem is that I don't know of anyone local that I can trust, and all the specialists seem to have HUGE backlogs of work.

 

Does anyone know of someone reputable who has capacity to take on some work? My Dad has always used a guy named Andy Anderson (Andy's Custom Guns) up in Golden, CO but i'm pretty sure he is retired, as I haven't been able to get in touch with him.

[HOGRIDER]

21 minutes ago, NateTheSkate said:

I think this may be exactly what is happening, I can't believe I didn't think of this earlier.

 

I went over to my Dad's house today, he has a bunch of 1911's. Military and commercial. all the military ones passed the test, and all the commercial ones (which have all had work done by a 1911 smith up in Denver) passed the test EXCEPT the two that had EGW competition hammers.

 

I looked at the 2011 that is giving me trouble, and it too has an EGW competition hammer. I'm going to swap it out and see if that solves my "reset test" problem.

 

don't get me wrong, I LOVE EGW stuff, it's all top notch IMHO... but if i can solve this problem by swapping out the hammer, I will, if only to assuage my neuroses lol.

 

I'll give it a try and report back, thanks @shred!

 

 

Don't think the EGW hammers are causing your lack of pre-travel........

 

From the 1911 Forums article I linked above:

 

Quote

Whether the hammer falls from half cock is dependent on the hammer half cock style, captive or non-captive. And has nothing to do with pretravel. Except the reality that a 1911 with insufficient pretravel and a captive half cock may drop the hammer from half cock because the captive ledge is sitting on top of the sear face and can't go deeper due to lack of pretravel.