9 MAJOR - sanity check some tentative ladders (WAC, 3N37/8, AA7)

[Guitarmageddon]

Hey folks, I've got the new open gun and a few of the typical powders at my disposal. MPA DS9 open gun with 4 popples. I've been doing a lot of research to see who has luck with what charge weights etc, and making and educated (yet conservative) plan for my initial tester ladders. Looking below, what is the wisdom of the crowd on these planned ladders? I understand I may be arriving ever so slightly slow at the top end , but I anticipated having to edge them up ever so slightly to hit that 168-171 sweet spot. I've attached a pic of what I'm thinking. Using PD 124 JHP V2 profile. Have CCI SPP as well as federal SRP.

Edited May 8 by Guitarmageddon

[Maximis228]

Below is the load data I have for 5 inch middy, 5.5 Full Size, and 4.5 Shorty. The range listed covers all 3 set ups. All 3 are hybrid type open guns with 2 (Shorty) or 3 holes (Middy & Full Size).  

 

All load data is using mixed range brass, 124 PD JHP V1, CCI 500 primers, and 1.165 OAL. 

 

WAC | 7.1 | 171-173 PF

SW Major Pistol | 10.3 | 170 - 173 PF

HS6 | 8.2 | 168-169 PF 

AA7 | 9.6 | 169-171 PF

 

WAC is my go-to load as its very easy to load, very temp stable, and for my grip the gun is very flat. 

 

I also have some 115 load data if you are going down the rabbit hole... 

 

[ParaGunner]

I have the same pistol. I use MPA's recommended load of

124grn hollow point 

9.8grns of accurate 7

Smpp/ srp

1.18oal

Makes 170pf

[MoNsTeR]

Those look about right. I load MG 124s out to 1.175", but PDs are shorter and I ended up around 1.150". My (very old) notes show 7.1gr Autocomp, 7.7gr 3N37, 8.2gr HS6, 7.6gr Silhouette. I have a 5.5" barrel with no holes though, so you may need more. I prefer HS6.

[Guitarmageddon]

Thanks all. Will be testing WAC and 3n38 over the Chrono today and will report back.

[Guitarmageddon]

Well, got out to the range to test the 3n38 and WAC. I crept up to just about where I needed to be and all is well. I think ill probably go with 7.2 auto comp and 3n38 might need 8.8 grains in this gun. Just wanted to get another piece of data for those out there on the hunt like I was.

[bootcamp]

Thanks for sharing @Guitarmageddon  Question, how or where did you get the min and max load data for these powders?  All I can find for WAC was min and max for standard loads which was something like 4.8-5.5.

[bootcamp]

Also, one more question, did your groupings improve or stay the same as your worked up your power factor load?

[Maximis228]

3 minutes ago, bootcamp said:

Thanks for sharing @Guitarmageddon  Question, how or where did you get the min and max load data for these powders?  All I can find for WAC was min and max for standard loads which was something like 4.8-5.5.

No 9 major load using 115 or 124 grain projectiles will be found in a reloading book (At least one worth using with a slower powder). ALL 9 major loads are above SAAMI pressure standards. 

 

We find the load data on places like Enos with people who do the testing on their own. At this point 9 major has been in vogue for about 12-15 years or so. 

[Guitarmageddon]

10 minutes ago, bootcamp said:

Thanks for sharing @Guitarmageddon 

 

 

8 minutes ago, bootcamp said:

Also, one more question, did your groupings improve or stay the same as your worked up your power factor load?

As @Maximis228said, it's nothing official. A little faith, hope, and trust in the Benos forums. But I confirmed with a lot of searching and confirming what others have done before me with a poppled gun/same length barrel. There was another post shared from a separate site "9 major in a short barrel" that was helpful

Edited May 10 by Guitarmageddon
too many quotes

[Sarge]

WAC 7.2 for 124, 7.4 for 121, 7.8 for 115.

oal on all 1.168. Make around 175PF from my Open guns.

[Guitarmageddon]

Thanks @Sarge

 

One other question. Default response is "work your loads up"....but if I did the above numbers on a CCI 500, now that I've got some federal SRP on the doorstep would you expect my 7.1 WAC velocity, for example, to change a lot from SPP to SRP?

 

My plan was to go 7.2 and call it good, but maybe 7.1 and SRP might give me the little buffer I was hoping to lock in?

[bootcamp]

13 minutes ago, Maximis228 said:

No 9 major load using 115 or 124 grain projectiles will be found in a reloading book (At least one worth using with a slower powder). ALL 9 major loads are above SAAMI pressure standards. 

 

We find the load data on places like Enos with people who do the testing on their own. At this point 9 major has been in vogue for about 12-15 years or so. 

 

Thanks for the reply sir.  Will be loading 9 major soon and i'm excited to work it up.  Just not exactly sure where to start.  I do know 7.2 @ 1.165 is about where everyone is happy with and achieving Major PF.

[Guitarmageddon]

Yep id suggest a similar ladder to what I used. Being practically my first 9 major experience aside from shooting a string or two out of a buddy's gun, it was interesting to immediately sense how the comp was working and dot was moving just while firing over the Chrono. 3n38 for example got better and better (so did the numbers on paper). Science!

[bootcamp]

55 minutes ago, Guitarmageddon said:

Yep id suggest a similar ladder to what I used. Being practically my first 9 major experience aside from shooting a string or two out of a buddy's gun, it was interesting to immediately sense how the comp was working and dot was moving just while firing over the Chrono. 3n38 for example got better and better (so did the numbers on paper). Science!

 Man that's fantastic!  So did the gun stay flatter with less recoil the higher you went in load?  Does the dot stay in the window upon double tapping?

Edited May 10 by bootcamp

[Guitarmageddon]

Yes it was very apparent as the charge increases on 3n38. I like that powder most so far. And yep that dot really stays in the window. If you use a *thumb rest [generic]* it's easy to influence where it's going. Total different experience than my slide ride optics

[bootcamp]

37 minutes ago, Guitarmageddon said:

Yes it was very apparent as the charge increases on 3n38. I like that powder most so far. And yep that dot really stays in the window. If you use a *thumb rest [generic]* it's easy to influence where it's going. Total different experience than my slide ride optics

Are you using a dillon powder measure?  If so, how does 3n38 meter?  Any noticable flash coming out of the comp or muzzle?  Thanks for the replies.  Surely appreciate it.

 

I just picked up a jug of autocomp thinking that's where i'll settle since everyone else I know is using it and have been happy with it, but it's nice to have a backup powder and load worked up just in case of some obama type shortage happens again.

[zzt]

@Maximis228 if you look at the VV data for 9x21 @ 1.161" OAL you will find major loads under SAAMI max.  Loading 9mm to the same OAL gives the same results.

 

@Guitarmageddon I think you will eventually run into problems with the v2s loaded that long.  If you switch to AA7 you'll heave a slower powder that meters like water and is super compressible.  That lets you load shorter so you get more bearing surface on the bullet.  I load 115 HAPs and other similar profile bullets to 1.161" OAL.  With PD 115v2 I went down to 1.135" OAL.  You'll get better SDs when you chrono.  My current major load is 115 PD JHP v2 over 10.1gr AA7 @ 1.135" OAL for 172 PF.  I'm currently using new Win+P HS brass with WSP primers.   When I go back to once fired RP brass and CCI 500 primers, I'll have to make a slight adjustment.

 

BTW, that load is softer and flatter the 172 PF 124 JHP load.  That's with a custom 3-chamber, six port comp and two 3/16" poppels.

[Guitarmageddon]

13 minutes ago, zzt said:

@Maximis228 if you look at the VV data for 9x21 @ 1.161" OAL you will find major loads under SAAMI max.  Loading 9mm to the same OAL gives the same results.

 

@Guitarmageddon I think you will eventually run into problems with the v2s loaded that long.  If you switch to AA7 you'll heave a slower powder that meters like water and is super compressible.  That lets you load shorter so you get more bearing surface on the bullet.  I load 115 HAPs and other similar profile bullets to 1.161" OAL.  With PD 115v2 I went down to 1.135" OAL.  You'll get better SDs when you chrono.  My current major load is 115 PD JHP v2 over 10.1gr AA7 @ 1.135" OAL for 172 PF.  I'm currently using new Win+P HS brass with WSP primers.   When I go back to once fired RP brass and CCI 500 primers, I'll have to make a slight adjustment.

 

BTW, that load is softer and flatter the 172 PF 124 JHP load.  That's with a custom 3-chamber, six port comp and two 3/16" poppels.

What other problems would I run into loading that profile longer, aside from just the SDs?

[Maximis228]

30 minutes ago, zzt said:

@Maximis228 if you look at the VV data for 9x21 @ 1.161" OAL you will find major loads under SAAMI max.  Loading 9mm to the same OAL gives the same results.

Last time I checked 9x21 is not 9x19. It might be similar but its not the same at all.

 

Also VV removed 9x21 data from their website. 

Edited May 10 by Maximis228

[zzt]

3 hours ago, Guitarmageddon said:

What other problems would I run into loading that profile longer, aside from just the SDs?

 

Without enough bearing surface you run more of a risk of bullet setback and greatly increased pressure.  9 major is already high pressure.  Why risk more?

[zzt]

2 hours ago, Maximis228 said:

Last time I checked 9x21 is not 9x19. It might be similar but its not the same at all.

 

Also VV removed 9x21 data from their website. 

 

a 9mm case loaded to a 9x21 OAL with the same bullet has the same internal case volume, and therefore the same pressure.  What does removing 9x21 info from the website have to do with that?

Edited May 10 by zzt

[Guitarmageddon]

2 hours ago, zzt said:

 

Without enough bearing surface you run more of a risk of bullet setback and greatly increased pressure.  9 major is already high pressure.  Why risk more?

Good point. Was verifying that this week with the "bench press" and racking rounds through. Trusty Lee u-die coming through again.