For $4000 is there anything better than the MPA DS9 LOC for Limited Optics?

[arcsign]

5 hours ago, waktasz said:

The most important thing is that it's reliable. I'm in a FB group for Prodigy owners and those things seem to be hit or miss. Good luck

 

(Apologies in advance, didn’t mean to write this much.)
 

I think I’ve read nearly every forum thread, reddit post, blog article, magazine article, etc I could find… It’s clear to me that there were some initial teething issues, particularly with the 5 inch, that had to do with factory springs and maybe some issues with the mags. Also the 5 was reported to feel a bit sluggish compared to the 4.25.

 
At some point in the last year they made some changes. Iirc, spring changes on both (slightly heavier), new mags have smoothed/polished feed lips, material removed from rear of 5 inch slide (presumably for cycle speed), and some possible geometry adjustments to front of slide on 5 inch.

 

Consensus seemed to be that people with later models weren’t having issues.

 

Being the internet and all, it’s a bit difficult to sort out:

- early vs late production models

- equipment vs operator errors
- direct experience vs indirect vs hallucinations

- how many have been sold, real vs perceived defect rate

 

The big thing, for me anyway, is that (most) people who had issues with theirs sent it in to SA for service, got it back in a timely fashion, and reported no further issues beyond that. People that didn’t send it in either sold it (weird), had it worked on by a smith, or fixed it themselves; the latter two similarly reporting no further issues.

 

Personal experience with other SA stuff owned by myself or my dad - an xd, two xdms, a hellcat, and a saint edge - has been consistently positive (well, the hellcat kind of sucks, but I feel like all tiny guns do).

I handled the prodigies in a shop in both sizes, along with some other stuff; some kind of 9k Atlas (not convinced it feels 6k nicer than a czechmate or 8.5k ish nicer than a prodigy), czechmate, TSO, unknown Tanfo open gun, nighthawk, shadow 2, PDP, echelon, canik(s). 
 

Discarded Platypus (limited parts compatibility, weird looking grip angle), Staccato (ugly slides, stupid star on grip, annoying fans on reddit), Atlas (this is not my primary hobby), CZ (want 2011 trigger), as well as PDP, Echelon, Canik (all three feel great, reported reliable, etc… but really want SAO, hammer fired kind of thing).

Also considered going to Hayes Cobra , MPA hybrid or LO, DWX (not optics ready), and probably some I’m forgetting… but the diminishing returns thing is in play; the Prodigy will likely feel better than anything I’ve owned or shot pistol-wise.
 

Assuming it’s reliable (out of box or after svc), I’m not clear on what I would gain by going to something higher end. (Possible I’ve missed some considerations, though)

 

 

Anyway. I just looked at how much I’ve written and realized I should stop now. Sorry.
 

 

Summary version: probably Prodigy 5 inch, aware of reported issues, assume it will be reliable either out of box or after warranty work, unsure if it would be worth it to spend more, unsure of cost for the next major step in performance, reliability, usability, and accuracy. (Basically, how much does it cost to get a 2011 good enough that spending beyond that no longer improves function or performance in any meaningful way.)

 

 

[shred]

If you're serious, you'll wear out a Prodigy (or most any other functional 2011) before you get to a point where something "better" would make a significant difference.  By that point you'll know what you want.

[zzt]

A 5" Prodigy with optic for $1376 and free shipping gives you an awful lot for your money.   It is hard to justify spending more for an MPA, especially given their spotty quality.

[looking4reloadingdeals]

Has anyone tried, or heard anything about the Stealth Arms Platypus? For about $1500 with an aluminum grip and takes Glock magazines it seems decent but I haven’t seen much about it. One downside may be that it doesn’t have a plate system, just a direct mount option. 

[ferris]

Couldn’t be happier with my DS9 LOC, about 600 rds now without an issue and definitely appreciate the fit/finish/feel over my Staccato…not really a fair comparison between the two because of the different use cases. IMO the MPA is hard to beat for an out of the box LOC gun.  Haven’t got to handle the Vudoo but hear it’s an amazing pistol for the price as well.

[Mike21STI]

I have the ds9 hybrid Idpa version and although it isn't as good as my cheely limited gun, it is a very good value for the money.  

[LHshooter]

I've had my DS9 IDPA for a couple weeks now and couldn't be happier. Have about 375 rounds through it with no issues at all. Only used it in 1 match so far. I still have to get used to drawing, releasing the safety, and finding the dot consistently. Have used a Sig X5 with a Holosun for so long. This is my first 1911 and I put an SRO on it. Need to put in some dry fire time.

[Runswithwood1]

I've ran across a few MPAs in the wild and have yet to see anyone dissatisfied with it. They seem solid for the $$, the fit and finish on the couple I looked at are damn near impeccable 

[zzt]

See this.  https://www.briley.com/p-68407-prodigy-premium-package-optic-sight.aspx

 

You would have to be nuts to spend 4k and roll the dice on a MPA DS9 for LO when the Briley is available.  You end up with a full custom gun for under $3k.

[EvilNuff]

Just received my Vudoo Priest today, only had the chance to put about 70 rounds through it but very impressed so far.  Definitely something for folks to consider.

[AndyID]

On 2/8/2024 at 10:20 AM, zzt said:

See this.  https://www.briley.com/p-68407-prodigy-premium-package-optic-sight.aspx

 

You would have to be nuts to spend 4k and roll the dice on a MPA DS9 for LO when the Briley is available.  You end up with a full custom gun for under $3k.

I’ve looked at MPA’s open guns, and want one. I’ve heard nothing but good about them handling issues and making things right. I can find people who have had issues with every manufacturer. One group sings praise, and another group shouts down the same brand. Hard to understand sometimes. 

 

You definitely lead the charge here trying to steer folks away from MPA. What’s the angle? 
 

 

[zzt]

4 hours ago, AndyID said:

You definitely lead the charge here trying to steer folks away from MPA. What’s the angle? 

 

Inexcusable deficiencies in  new 4K guns, many that affect safety.  Astounding stupidity with some of the stuff they do.  It absolutely boggles my mind that they put crap like that out.  Buy MPA and you roll the dice.  You may get a good one.  You may get three good ones in a row.  Then again you may not.    If the gun cost $700 I'd say, okay, you get what you pay for.  Even then I'd question putting a new gun out there that fails safety check.  For $4000 I expect everything to be perfect.  I don't care that they may eventually make it right.  Hire good gunsmiths in the first place and there is nothing to make right.

 

This is the exact reason STI went out of business.  I swore years ago I would never, ever buy anything STI.  Too many problems with their stuff.   CK Arms went the same way.  Cut too many corners and people start to notice.  Why did 6 out of 7 DVC Open shooters have to send their guns back for repairs several times.  None of them shoot DVCs now.  They sold them and bought stuff that runs.

 

Now, I will note that people don't come to me with guns that work right.  I only see the broken or bad ones.  Some of them are scary.

 

I understand the allure of an 'inexpensive' Open gun.  Especially when most go for $7500+.  Open is not where you want to cut corners.   I wouldn't buy an MPA  gun either.  I can build one for less.  There are other manufacturer's guns I wouldn't buy either.  

 

Do yourself a favor and look around.  There are options.  One is to start with a good LO gun.  Buy a $400 one piece barrel/comp from Brazos and pay a gunsmith $350 to fit it.  If you don't want to spend $7500, buy an Open short block from someone reputable.  All the hard work is already done.  Everything else is a matter of assembly with little actual fitting required.  I did just that on the last Open build.  I wanted to see how it would work out.  I had a completed, 100% functioning gun in an afternoon.

[RJH]

13 minutes ago, zzt said:

 

Inexcusable deficiencies in  new 4K guns, many that affect safety.  Astounding stupidity with some of the stuff they do.  It absolutely boggles my mind that they put crap like that out.  Buy MPA and you roll the dice.  You may get a good one.  You may get three good ones in a row.  Then again you may not.    If the gun cost $700 I'd say, okay, you get what you pay for.  Even then I'd question putting a new gun out there that fails safety check.  For $4000 I expect everything to be perfect.  I don't care that they may eventually make it right.  Hire good gunsmiths in the first place and there is nothing to make right.

 

This is the exact reason STI went out of business.  I swore years ago I would never, ever buy anything STI.  Too many problems with their stuff.   CK Arms went the same way.  Cut too many corners and people start to notice.  Why did 6 out of 7 DVC Open shooters have to send their guns back for repairs several times.  None of them shoot DVCs now.  They sold them and bought stuff that runs.

 

Now, I will note that people don't come to me with guns that work right.  I only see the broken or bad ones.  Some of them are scary.

 

I understand the allure of an 'inexpensive' Open gun.  Especially when most go for $7500+.  Open is not where you want to cut corners.   I wouldn't buy an MPA  gun either.  I can build one for less.  There are other manufacturer's guns I wouldn't buy either.  

 

Do yourself a favor and look around.  There are options.  One is to start with a good LO gun.  Buy a $400 one piece barrel/comp from Brazos and pay a gunsmith $350 to fit it.  If you don't want to spend $7500, buy an Open short block from someone reputable.  All the hard work is already done.  Everything else is a matter of assembly with little actual fitting required.  I did just that on the last Open build.  I wanted to see how it would work out.  I had a completed, 100% functioning gun in an afternoon.

 

Unsafe how?

 

[zzt]

15 hours ago, RJH said:

 

Unsafe how?

 

 

Half cock did not function.  Hammer dropped when thumb safety disengaged.  Hard trigger pull released thumb safety.  Things like that indicate inadequate, or inexperienced fitting and poor quality control.  They should never have been allowed to leave the factory.  Other things that did not affect safety were just plain lazy or stupid.   

 

I have zero tolerance regarding safety issues.  If I had received one of the guns in question, I could have fixed the problem if I didn't send it back.  Now consider someone who does not build pistols.  Someone who may barely know how to disassemble for cleaning.  I'm willing to bet 70% of 1911/2011 shooters do not know how to check half cock.  How many pull the trigger really hard for a safety check.  I sure didn't.  I failed a safety check at the chrono station with my first used Open gun.  A really hard pull on the trigger disengaged the thumb safety.  I never in a million years would have thought to pull that hard.  Perfectly safe with a good tug, but not a really hard pull.  Fortunately I also had a used backup.

[zzt]

Added later.  I don't care if 95% of a manufacture's guns leave the factory 100%.  I don't care if they handle warranty repairs well.  5% left with problems.  That is enough for me to recommend against them.  I'm the Chief Range Officer for pistol at my home club.  I see all sorts of things.  Two weeks ago a member bought a new pistol and brought it the range.  It would not fire.  I disassembled the gun, saw the problem, and told him to return it.  I also told him to buy a different brand.  He showed up the following week with another pistol (that did work) and thanked me. 

[RobW]

I own and have plenty of rounds through most of the guns mentioned in this thread.

 

I have a Brazos SC for Open, 100% reliable from day-1 and I would (and probably will) buy another one.

 

I have a Bul SAS II Air, 100% reliable from day-1. Won't buy another, but that is because I switched to optics before they offered that option.

 

I own a Prodigy, the 4.25" model, and I was an "early adopter" that purchased at release. I've had all of the reported issues, sent it back to Springfield and also had a local smith redo the trigger. It's finicky about mags, prefers Atlas to MBX, but has otherwise run fine post-repairs. I would not buy another one, there are other sub-2k options out there nowadays that I would take a shot on.

 

Finally, I bought an MPA for Handgun Nats last year when they opened up the LO spots. Gun is perfectly fine, runs great. YMMV. I would not buy another MPA, I'd go for a little more and buy a Brazos. If it wasn't a short notice thing I probably wouldn't have one.

 

All said, only the Prodigy didn't run out of the box. It is the cheapest option by far, it was a brand-new design, and Springfield made it right with a sub two-week turnaround. YMMV.

 

 

[waktasz]

"Brand new design"  
 

[Seakphotog]

42 minutes ago, RobW said:

I own and have plenty of rounds through most of the guns mentioned in this thread.

 

I have a Brazos SC for Open, 100% reliable from day-1 and I would (and probably will) buy another one.

 

I have a Bul SAS II Air, 100% reliable from day-1. Won't buy another, but that is because I switched to optics before they offered that option.

 

I own a Prodigy, the 4.25" model, and I was an "early adopter" that purchased at release. I've had all of the reported issues, sent it back to Springfield and also had a local smith redo the trigger. It's finicky about mags, prefers Atlas to MBX, but has otherwise run fine post-repairs. I would not buy another one, there are other sub-2k options out there nowadays that I would take a shot on.

 

Finally, I bought an MPA for Handgun Nats last year when they opened up the LO spots. Gun is perfectly fine, runs great. YMMV. I would not buy another MPA, I'd go for a little more and buy a Brazos. If it wasn't a short notice thing I probably wouldn't have one.

 

All said, only the Prodigy didn't run out of the box. It is the cheapest option by far, it was a brand-new design, and Springfield made it right with a sub two-week turnaround. YMMV.

 

 

Great info - thanks!  How does the MPA compare to the Air? I've got an optics ready Air which I love but was thinking about trying an MPA Hybrid of some flavor (base, IDPA or LO Comp - likely just the base Hybrid).  Seems to me the Air is a crazy value in the handfit 2011 world. I'm wondering if an MPA would be a step up or more just a lateral move. Brazos looks like a good value for a custom, handbuilt gun, that's for sure.  How long is their wait, if you know.  TIA!

[Racinready300ex]

5 hours ago, zzt said:

Added later.  I don't care if 95% of a manufacture's guns leave the factory 100%.  I don't care if they handle warranty repairs well.  5% left with problems.  That is enough for me to recommend against them.  I'm the Chief Range Officer for pistol at my home club.  I see all sorts of things.  Two weeks ago a member bought a new pistol and brought it the range.  It would not fire.  I disassembled the gun, saw the problem, and told him to return it.  I also told him to buy a different brand.  He showed up the following week with another pistol (that did work) and thanked me. 

 

I'd assume it's a pretty short list of manufactures you'd recommend. 

[zzt]

52 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I'd assume it's a pretty short list of manufactures you'd recommend. 

 

And getting shorter all the time.

[ddc]

On 2/20/2024 at 11:50 AM, AndyID said:

You definitely lead the charge here trying to steer folks away from MPA. What’s the angle? 

 

Yeah, he beats that drum pretty hard doesn't he?

[truespode]

I've read a lot of negatives about MPA here but where I shoot there are a lot of people with MPA's. Quite a few Open but also a lot of Hybrid's and LOC. Nobody has told me of any issues and I asked almost all of them before I placed my order.

I also talked to David L with MPA and traded emails with the owner before placing my order. I have had a great experience with them and in under 16 weeks I received my MPA today. I will get it out to the range soon and I believe I will be a good test because I am not a gunsmith. I only have experience with Polymer guns (mostly FN's) but do shoot a lot in USPSA (3-4 matches a month) but also am just a C (almost B ) class shooter. 

I have several times squeezed the trigger while the safety was engaged just to see if it would do anything and it doesn't move at all. F

[Seakphotog]

39 minutes ago, truespode said:

I've read a lot of negatives about MPA here but where I shoot there are a lot of people with MPA's. Quite a few Open but also a lot of Hybrid's and LOC. Nobody has told me of any issues and I asked almost all of them before I placed my order.

I also talked to David L with MPA and traded emails with the owner before placing my order. I have had a great experience with them and in under 16 weeks I received my MPA today. I will get it out to the range soon and I believe I will be a good test because I am not a gunsmith. I only have experience with Polymer guns (mostly FN's) but do shoot a lot in USPSA (3-4 matches a month) but also am just a C (almost B ) class shooter. 

I have several times squeezed the trigger while the safety was engaged just to see if it would do anything and it doesn't move at all. F

Congrats on you new MPA!  Looking forward to reading about your experience with it.

[Racinready300ex]

The MPA's I've handled seem decent. They don't feel as nice as some of the more expensive custom guns, but they shouldn't.

 

I know a few people with them, most have been trouble free. One person had issues with slide not locking back on the last shot. I know here we'll say that doesn't matter, but he's a IDPA shooter and told them the gun was for IDPA. For $4k I'd expect that key feature to work on a gun that needs it. The did fix it for him. Same gun is also supposed to have the most aggressive grip and it clearly is not. Not sure what the out come of that will be.

[RobW]

22 hours ago, Seakphotog said:

Great info - thanks!  How does the MPA compare to the Air? I've got an optics ready Air which I love but was thinking about trying an MPA Hybrid of some flavor (base, IDPA or LO Comp - likely just the base Hybrid).  Seems to me the Air is a crazy value in the handfit 2011 world. I'm wondering if an MPA would be a step up or more just a lateral move. Brazos looks like a good value for a custom, handbuilt gun, that's for sure.  How long is their wait, if you know.  TIA!

 

The MPA is nicer than the Air, but that impression probably has more to do with the stock polymer grip on the Air and a "more custom" aluminum grip on the MPA. The MPA grip fits my hand absolutely perfectly as well. I bought my BUL armory I think in 2020 if that matters. I bought my Brazos two years ago and IIRC I waited about 12-13 weeks from order to delivery.