I blew my gun up!

[TDean]

Sad but true....

In the middle of a stage yesterday, POOF!!.....hands numb....ears ringing....smoke rising...parts and ammo comming to rest......

It must have been a double charge.  The 10mm case was ruptured at the imfamous unsupported 6-O'clock position.  

My face was cut, my index finger is powder-burned and blood-blistered from gasses escaping between the frame and slide gap.  Both hands were black from gun powder.  The frame is cracked at the mag release area, the ammo (15+ rds) was blown out the bottom of the mag.  The Grams base pad and hi-cap mag are both trashed.  The ejector bent, the T.H.E. mag release was shattered in two pieces.  

The trigger is gone, totally gone.  Just a piece of metal with a hole in it sticking out there.  I don't know how my trigger finger escaped injury, but it did.

This just three weeks before Limited Nationals.....

(I'm not going to switch to the .45 Para with only a couple weeks of re-training)

After a very difficult dis-assembly, I think the barrel and slide are ok.  I have another frame (1st generation) that I could use, but my existing magwell/seattle-slug combo won't fit that frame.....hmmm..

Well, with a little creativity and luck, I'll be there in Bend.

The cause (I think):

My 550B was having problems picking up a new primer.  I had to remove the case from the powder station, stroke the handle again to get the machine to pick up a new primer.  Well, maybe I forgot to remove the case one time and double charged one.  180gr at 1800FPS anyone??!!?!!

Lesson learned:  Don't use your reloading machine if it's not working right.  Even if you're "smart" and find a shortcut to get it going.  Stop, evaluate, fix.  

[Patrick Sweeney]

TDean,  would it be possible to obtain photos (or the loan of the scrap so I can take photos) for my Glock book?

Please,please,please?

[TDean]

I bet you go to car races just to see the crashes, don't you!!

Let me see what I can salvage to make a worthy blaster to get me through LimNats, then maybe I'll loan you the scrap for your book.  (The frame would require FFL shippment right?)

[Patrick Sweeney]

It would not, unless I was buying it from you.  Loans to an FFL do not, as I would simply put it in my bound book (I have an FFL) as a gunsmithing repair and then send it back when "done."

Shipping to an FFL for repairs, or to the factory, do not require an FFL on your end.  (State Law may vary, but that's what the Feds say.)

[Rich Linder]

Shot my G23 two times with the factory barrel.  Big bulges in the brass.  I wouldn't shoot the gun again until the new KKM barel was installed.  Now there is no more problem.   I like Glocks, I do not like the factory barrel.

[twix]

Sorry about the demise of your favorite blaster. Glad you are ok. Thanks for sharing. Time to upgrade to a 650 maybe(automatic indexing)? I squibbed a load in practice the other day, I'm going to go ahead and pop for the powder checker now(for my 650). Previously I had said (use your best Jack Nicholson voice here)" I AM the G*&^%$^%^&  powder checker!" PS If anyone can name the movie that line is paraphrased from you get 5 bonus points.

[cpty1]

TDean, glad you weren't hurt.  IMO, sounds like you were lucky you weren't hurt worse than you were.  I've always been afraid of the 550s due to the manual indexing operation.  Always been afraid I'd doublecharge a case and kablooey.

[TDean]

Thanks gents.

Just for the record, I'm confident in Glock's design.  I wouldn't trust shooting 10.5 grs of Titegroup in a fully supported 1911 10mm barrel either.

It just may be another ingenious design of Gastons.

You know,....a blow-out panel in the form of an unsupported barrel which vents gasses in the event of a rupture down and out through the magwell instead of splitting the barrel in two? no?

Glock says they'll install a new frame for $46

I'll get my barrel and slide magnafluxed to check for cracks.

[Mark Perez]

TD ,

Glad to hear you are alright. was this the glock you were testing the ghost rocket on??

[SteveZ]

Hey Tom, having been only a few feet from you when it happened (specifically about 5 to your 8 o'clock position) it didn't sound that loud (like a double charge)..it just sounded like you were flying and then all the bullets spilled out the bottom.  When Rick said "Ok, uhm....stop" I thought he was kinda kidding because you just lost all your ammo.

So how about this as a possible scenerio...is it possible that you could have fired the round with the gun not fully in battery?  When the "ka-boom" happened, you were really flying on that stage.  I'm wondering if its possible if you could have exceeded you all time "split" and had the gun fire out of battery...hence the outgas down the mag chute and everywhere else (but no apparent damage to the barrel/slide).

Oh yeah, you took 1st Master without shooting those last 3 stages!

(Edited by Steven Zopfi at 3:18 pm on Aug. 5, 2002)

[Singlestack]

TDean,

Glad you are ok. I use a 550 and I have always been scared of a double charge. I have loaded 2 squibs and either one could just have easily been a double. FWIW, I have made it a habit (after my last squib, which took out my stock G35 barrel), to look at the charge as I am cycling the press on the down stroke before I index.

I believe, like you, that both of my squibs came as a result of the damn primer system on the 550. In order to make mine feed reliably I have to take it apart and clean it every 300 rounds. Any more and I start having pick-up problems.

[tightloop]

If you load your own long enough, loading problems are just like talking about AD's.  There are only two kinds of people, those who have had them and those who will have them.

You just cannot have distractions while you are loading or you are bound to have either 2x charges or squibs or no primer rounds.

You cannot think that using factory ammo will solve that either; Ray Chapman lost the World Shoot due to a faulty factory round.

[TDean]

Loudness?

That's interesting you say that Steve.  Others said the same thing, It didn't sound any different.....to them.

....to me, it sounded huge!  Now maybe I'm confusing the pressures I felt on my hands and face as noise, but I would swear the noise was deafening.  Shock maybe?

Out of battery?

Interesting also.  But I don't think so.  When I insert the blown case back into the chamber, it lines up perfectly with the unsupported area when fully headspaced.

First Master! That means Lisa and Greg and some C-shooter were 1,2,3rd overall.  I couldn't have finished top 10 with losing all those stage points?  Those were pretty cool belt buckle prizes though....maybe I'll get one anyway?

Single-Stank,

Would a powder-check die work on our 550 at stage #3 if we seated and crimped with one die on #4? (we can seat & crimp with one die right, who makes'em?)

[SteveZ]

It could have been shock that you were experiencing (God knows you took quite a jolt through your hands) but when you were shooting it just seemed like you were running along and then all the bullets fell out the bottom (my thought was "oops, the floor plate broke") I didn't hear anything that sounded unusual...like what I've heard in the past with 1911's an over charge.

Custer will probably post match results soon...and yes, you won a belt buckle...in fact everyone in our squad placed (which makes up the super squad!) , Rick has it!

1st - 3rd L10 was Zach, Rick and myself...we were all within a few percentage points of each other.

[bluemeanie]

---

Quote: from TDean on 4:37 pm on Aug. 5, 2002

Single-Stank,

---

It hasn't died.

[EricW]

TDean,

Hornaday makes a combo seat/crimp die as does Lee and a couple others I believe.  I think I have one that I'd simply give to you if you send me your address.  I'm in Vancouver, so it will only take a day or two to get there.  Send me a message with your address & I'll have it in the mail tomorrow.

I've thought long and hard about trying to rig up a powdercheck die on my 550.  I've also messed with rigging up a mirror, so that I get a clear view into each case before I put a bullet on.

Sorry to hear about your misfortune.  It will rise from the ashes to be a better, badder Glock I'm sure.  

E

[TDean]

Well thanks Eric, I may take you up on that offer, but only if you let me buy you a couple beers in Bend.

What has stump'd you as far as rigging a powder check on the 550?

Mirror?  That's an interesting idea!

[EricW]

Well this blows....  

I just checked the tool box.  My spare seater is a Dillon.  So, no seat/crimp die for you.  Sorry to get your hopes up.  

Nothing has me stumped other than I hate seating and crimping on the same station.  It's just a total pain in the ass to get it "right" and keep it there.  But, watching your shootin' iron vaporize in your hands is probably a bit more distressing.

You've got me re-thinking the whole powder check issue for the 550.  I'm sure you're at least as careful as I am - and you got bit.  A Hornaday seater/crimper is the least offensive option as it has a nice bullet depth adjustment setup.  Very flexible.  

As for the mirror - I've been playing with a Sears mirror with the flex end.  It kind of works.  I've been busy with other stuff lately so I haven't fooled with it in a while.  Some light needs to be supplied to get proper visibility, as the mirror blocks off the overhead lighting.  

Let me know if you need me to track down a  new generation G20 for you.  They're pretty cheap down here (used).  I'll be in the Spokane area in about a week.  I'm really glad you're OK.  Talk about spooky s***.

Otherwise, I'll see you in Bend.

E

[Swede20]

TDean,

I just recently blew up my G20 at a match.  I had a blazing run going them BOOM!  Trigger is gone, barrel is slightly cracked, frame is busted up, mag and bevens pad also broken.  I had to get metal dug out of my hand.  I load on a 650 and I dont see how I could have double charged one.  I believe the cause of mine was that it fired out of battery.  I got another G20 frame and a barsto barrel and I am back in action.  Hope to see you at the Nationals!  I will also be there with my G20!

Dave Erickson

[shred]

I forget how a 550 is laid out, but a friend had an idea to drill a hole in the toolhead and install one of those tiny LED-lights to get a better look at the powder charge.

somehow I managed to make a squib on a 650 the other day..

(Edited by shred at 9:29 am on Aug. 6, 2002)

[ErikW]

TDean, you been getting load data from Clark?

I think squibs and double charges occur when something interrupts the loading process and you get out of the cycle. (Case feeder stuck, trying to deprime gravel, split case during belling, etc.) When this happens, remove all cases from all stations, set them aside, and start from scratch.

When I was loading on a PiggyBack II, which broke down every few rounds, I ended up loading my only squib. No such trouble with Square Deal B and XL650.

Get yourself a Model 1 Mark I Propellant Visual Verification Illuminator, a small gooseneck lamp. Look for powder just before you put on the bullet.

(Edited by Erik Warren at 10:14 am on Aug. 6, 2002)

[TDean]

Load data from Clark? goodness no!

Swede, what makes you think it fired out of battery?

Do you have the case?  What does it look like, I'm curious.  I guess I got lucky that the frame was the only damage.

[Singlestack]

ooops, double tap.

(Edited by Singlestack at 6:17 pm on Aug. 6, 2002)

[Singlestack]

---

Quote: from TDean on 7:37 pm on Aug. 5, 2002

Single-Stank,

Would a powder-check die work on our 550 at stage #3 if we seated and crimped with one die on #4? (we can seat & crimp with one die right, who makes'em?)

---

I refuse to use a seat and crimp combo die. I load for my G35 and my SV with the same toolhead using a Redding Competition seating die and I really like the easy adjustability.

As far as the Single-Stank remark goes, you get one procedural penalty for every use!

[skeeter]

tdean check you're barrel real close. i had a kb that broke the trigger but left the rest of the frame ok. but when i looked at the barrel i noticed 2 hair line cracks on the side of the chamber. it doesn't show any signs of swelling but istopped useing it anyway.