40 minor with 165s and N320, sport pistol, hp38....

[Guitarmageddon]

Looking at using my trusty TSO in 40, for limited optics. I think it would be kinda fun to download my major loads, but switch over to blue bullets 165 RNFP from my current staple the 180 RNFP. In the past, Ive just switched from the 180 and changed nothing but the bullet and moved to 165s. This took my 4.5-4.6grains of hp38/sport pistol/n320, and made it slightly sub major. I have access to the 3 of those powders currently and am quite familiar with them. I must admit though, Ive experienced a lot of position sensitivity in 38 spl with HP38, so Im not sure how kindly it would take to downloading in 40. Granted, the loads I speculate below would be about 48-52% of effective case volume in that particular powder. The other two choices are a bit less dense

 

Any of you have familiarity with loading to maybe 140-145 PF with those powders and some light 40 cal bullets? I shot 4.5 grains of sport pistol under a 165 blues a few months ago and that still chrono'd around 155 pf (my OAL has always been 1.135). Any further down than this is a little more exploratory though. But I do hear of some guys way downloading some powders, which can get a little dicey. I was thinking of a ladder of maybe 4.4/4.2/4.0 to test. Would likely have to downgrade the spring but thats fine. thanks.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Guitarmageddon

[Joe4d]

had the right idea, but wrong bullet. Go with same profile 155 and switch nothing from your 180 load. Should run the same springs and have same point of impact

[Guitarmageddon]

49 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

had the right idea, but wrong bullet. Go with same profile 155 and switch nothing from your 180 load. Should run the same springs and have same point of impact

Who do you like for a 155 grain profile? Any without a lube groove out there?

[GrumpyOne]

If you have access to regular Clays, try 3.2 with a 180 coated bullet. Should be about 135 PF and will make you giggle when you shoot it. 

[Guitarmageddon]

36 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

If you have access to regular Clays, try 3.2 with a 180 coated bullet. Should be about 135 PF and will make you giggle when you shoot it. 

My only worry about a heavy bullet for the job would be chunky slide movement with a dot. I think I can try some clays from a buddy though

[ltdmstr]

I just chrono'd some loads with 165g SNS coated bullets and 5.0g N320 at 1.180" OAL and those made just over 135 pf in a 5" gun.

[Guitarmageddon]

56 minutes ago, ltdmstr said:

I just chrono'd some loads with 165g SNS coated bullets and 5.0g N320 at 1.180" OAL and those made just over 135 pf in a 5" gun.

Wow I would not expect them to be moving that slow. I clocked 165s with 5.1 of n320 at about 1050 fps with OAL 1.130. way more of a velocity falloff than I would expect for the added length of +.050. thanks for the data point good to know.

[rishii]

I settled on 4.2 gn of W231 under a 165 blue bullet gave me a 134 PF thru a 6” barrel

I’m going to try 140 gn coated later to see which one I like best

[Joe4d]

4 hours ago, Guitarmageddon said:

Who do you like for a 155 grain profile? Any without a lube groove out there?

same place you are getting 180's. should be the same profile. Thats why 180 major/155 minor works so well. no die adjustmens, oal should feed the same ,no powder adjustment, no gun adjustment, just change bullet

 

[Guitarmageddon]

So I tested some loads with 165 grain blues today, and it wasnt as simple as "keep your powder charge the same and just go with the lighter bullet." I knew that wouldnt be the case based on earlier results, at least at this OAL. Perhaps that would be exaggerated at lets say, 1.18 or something around there.

Pretty happy with the n320 at 4.2 grains. For anyone in future searches, here is what I found, of course use load data with caution.

I will follow up when my 155 grain brazzos arrive. Will likely put them over the 4.2 grain charges below and see how that feels. Im venturing a guess and saying I will have to respring the gun to get a good return to zero but we shall see. Gun shot great with the dot today.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Guitarmageddon

[Garrett]

I’m going through a similar situation. I pulled my ‘90s vintage Para P16 out of the back of the safe and threw on an EGW dovetail mount and a spare Holosun 507 that I had. And I still have the CR Speed Holster “2002 World Shoot” model holster. 
 

I’m actually having a lot of fun, having not played with this set of equipment in years. 
 

Like others, my previous approach was to use a 155 gr. bullet for minor, changing nothing else from my 180 gr. major load. Not having any 155s, I thought I’d go a step farther and bought some coated 140s from MBC, and I loaded them with N320. 

 

These felt like shooting a .22LR. The dot hardly moves off the target. And this was at around 155 PF. 

 

However, I was getting really weak ejection, to the point I would get a stovepipe failure about once every other magazine. Ejection is good when shooting major PF. And extractor tension is good. 
 

So I dropped the recoil spring from 14# to 12# and then 11#. This helped some but I was still getting these failures. 
 

So next up I’ll probably have to get some 155 gr. bullets. More to come...

[Guitarmageddon]

On 5/7/2023 at 9:50 AM, Garrett said:

I’m going through a similar situation. I pulled my ‘90s vintage Para P16 out of the back of the safe and threw on an EGW dovetail mount and a spare Holosun 507 that I had. And I still have the CR Speed Holster “2002 World Shoot” model holster. 
 

I’m actually having a lot of fun, having not played with this set of equipment in years. 
 

Like others, my previous approach was to use a 155 gr. bullet for minor, changing nothing else from my 180 gr. major load. Not having any 155s, I thought I’d go a step farther and bought some coated 140s from MBC, and I loaded them with N320. 

 

These felt like shooting a .22LR. The dot hardly moves off the target. And this was at around 155 PF. 

 

However, I was getting really weak ejection, to the point I would get a stovepipe failure about once every other magazine. Ejection is good when shooting major PF. And extractor tension is good. 
 

So I dropped the recoil spring from 14# to 12# and then 11#. This helped some but I was still getting these failures. 
 

So next up I’ll probably have to get some 155 gr. bullets. More to come...

Report back! Got my 155 grainers coming as we speak

[Garrett]

22 hours ago, Guitarmageddon said:

Report back! Got my 155 grainers coming as we speak

Ok, no 155s yet. But I did find an old box of 165 gr. Xtreme plated bullets at the back of my shelf. 
 

I loaded some with 4.8 gr. of N320 and Ginex SP primers. I tried two lengths, at 1.195” and 1.150”. 
 

The 1.150” loads gave an average PF of 147.  Ejection was positive, recoil was soft, and I had no failures in the 15 rounds I shot. 
 

The longer loads produced 136 PF. However, recoil was weak and I got two stovepipe failures with these loads. This was with the 14# recoil spring. I may be ok with this load and a lighter spring. But I’ll probably stick with a slightly faster load to ensure good ejection. 
 

I have enough of these bullets to practice a bit and shoot maybe one match. The profile of the MBC 180 gr. bullet feeds really well in my gun. Their 155 is more of a “traditional” SWC style bullet. The Blue Bullet 165 is more like the MBC 180 that I like. So maybe I’ll order a bunch of those instead. 

[Guitarmageddon]

9 hours ago, Garrett said:

Ok, no 155s yet. But I did find an old box of 165 gr. Xtreme plated bullets at the back of my shelf. 
 

I loaded some with 4.8 gr. of N320 and Ginex SP primers. I tried two lengths, at 1.195” and 1.150”. 
 

The 1.150” loads gave an average PF of 147.  Ejection was positive, recoil was soft, and I had no failures in the 15 rounds I shot. 
 

The longer loads produced 136 PF. However, recoil was weak and I got two stovepipe failures with these loads. This was with the 14# recoil spring. I may be ok with this load and a lighter spring. But I’ll probably stick with a slightly faster load to ensure good ejection. 
 

I have enough of these bullets to practice a bit and shoot maybe one match. The profile of the MBC 180 gr. bullet feeds really well in my gun. Their 155 is more of a “traditional” SWC style bullet. The Blue Bullet 165 is more like the MBC 180 that I like. So maybe I’ll order a bunch of those instead. 

Yes the blues profile has always done good. I also used the MBC once as well. My bore didn't mind blues being at .400 vs the MBC at .401 either. I have loaded an extremely small.amount of bullets with lube groove in my time, and these 155 grain Brazos will be among  the first. Always annoyed me that by this point with how prevalent coating is, that they still use molds with grooves.

[scooterj]

4.4gr n320 behind a BBI 165 RNFP @ 1.190” gets me 127 PF in my 5.5” FGW and is reliable. 
Same load through my 5” MPA DS40 TT gets 120 PF is 95% reliable. I could probably try different springs and get it 100%. Load was developed for ICORE with my S&W 610 6.5” 124PF. 

[Kilrb]

I just tested some Brass Monkey 182 GRN with 3.8 Grains of Sport Pistol 1.185. Pistol was STI Edge made 133PF

[muncie21]

Just ran some Brazos 155s across the chrono.  ~155-159 PF using 4.4gr of Prima V (similar to N320) loaded to 1.18 OAL. 

Using the same powder drop and die setting this nets 179-181 PF with 180gr bullets.  I don't mind the added cushion for major PF and have been running this setup for more than a few years.

 

Since I don't want to change my powder drop settings. 

I'm going to try a 140gr bullet (Bayou) first.  If that doesn't work, I'll look for a different powder.

[Squishy]

3.3 Grs. Clays with a 165 JHP Zero bullet. About a 130 to 135 Power Factor.

[muncie21]

Loaded up 140gr bullets last night and ran them over the chrono this morning.  No changes made to my reloading equipment between these and the 155's.  The PF of the 140's was ~5% lower than the 155's. 

 

Gun still cycled fine with the full power recoil spring I use for my major PF (normally 180PF) loads. 

[pjb45]

VV320, 200 gr Zero, 1.175-1.18 OAL, SV 5, full dust cover.

 

A minor load with a heavy bullet makes for a softer muzzle flip/recoil for me.

 

I learned this doing 45 ACP below major HF.  

 

Very soft shooting

 

[bulm540]

On 5/2/2023 at 9:34 AM, GrumpyOne said:

If you have access to regular Clays, try 3.2 with a 180 coated bullet. Should be about 135 PF and will make you giggle when you shoot it. 

1.2 OAL?

 

[GrumpyOne]

3 hours ago, bulm540 said:

1.2 OAL?

 

I'd have to look in my notebook, and I'm not home right now, but I don't remember anything odd about the standard length.

[jellyb]

On 5/4/2023 at 6:46 PM, Guitarmageddon said:

So I tested some loads with 165 grain blues today, and it wasnt as simple as "keep your powder charge the same and just go with the lighter bullet." I knew that wouldnt be the case based on earlier results, at least at this OAL. Perhaps that would be exaggerated at lets say, 1.18 or something around there.

Pretty happy with the n320 at 4.2 grains. For anyone in future searches, here is what I found, of course use load data with caution.

I will follow up when my 155 grain brazzos arrive. Will likely put them over the 4.2 grain charges below and see how that feels. Im venturing a guess and saying I will have to respring the gun to get a good return to zero but we shall see. Gun shot great with the dot today.

Awesome data! Thanks for sharing!

[Guitarmageddon]

On 2/1/2024 at 1:23 PM, jellyb said:

Awesome data! Thanks for sharing!

No prob! FYI the lighter hi-tek coated 155 gn Brazos a definite no go. Could not get the gun to spring to a spot I was happy with. And also, a lot of leading. Suspect they just weren't being driven fast enough. That was both with .400 and .401 coated. Chalk up another win for blue bullets coating resilience over hitek.