Newcomer Needs Advice

[chickenfried]

Hi guys,

Finally took an into to IPSC class and had alot of fun. Plan to attend a few practices before I actually use my free match certificate. After hearing about the usual round counts for a match and how much ammo people use for practicing, I think I might use a 9mm CZ-75 SA instead of a .45 1911.

Yeah I know I should reload. I have access to the equipment, but to be honest I'm a little scared of reloading .

But my holster and mag pouches are all for the 1911. So I'm having a little trouble deciding. Save money by switching to a cheaper caliber, but spend some dough on new equipment. Or save money by using the equipment I have, but spend more on ammo?

Thanks for the help

[AZ38super]

If you are like most all of the "Shooting Junkies" here on BE this is what will happen.

You will start off slow and be a bit timid and before you know it you are hooked solid and spending more and shooting even more depending on other factors in life.

The shooting sports in general need a warning label for the high degree of addiction to fun, shooting and the people involved.

You may change your mind what you want to shoot down the road or you will be like most and own several guns depending on your mood. Then as you get more guns and shoot more you will want to reload to save money, but usually you just end up shooting more for the same amount of money.

Start with what you already own and get a feel for it first, than make a decision where you feel you should go from there.

[bobert1]

Not a veteran of the sport yet either but I think I would go with the CZ. A holster and mag pouches will go about 100 bucks. With 9mm it's about a break even on reloading. You will probably be able to shoot alot more 9 too because of the cost, which at least will equal more trigger time. Then as you meet fellow shooters they will gladly help you with all your reloading concerns. Then you'll be able to shoot Prod.

Edited December 27, 2005 by bobert1

[short_round]

I have access to the equipment, but to be honest I'm a little scared of reloading .

It's like the sulfuric acid they gave you to play with in chemistry class. As long as you don't slosh it around or drink it you'll be fine. You only need to be afraid of reloading if you are/become careless.

Find someone you trust to be responsible to show you how to get started and you should be just fine. Everyone who reloads now felt the same way you do now at some point.

[BSeevers]

Is your CZ SA/DA? You stated SA so if not I would shoot SS 1911 in single stack or Limited 10. You can't shoot a SA gun in Production.

Other than that .45 is really expensive to shoot factory ammo BUT as you get into the sport you will find access to knowledge and used stuff so you can start reloading or switch divisions easier and cheaper. The advice about shooting WalMart factory 9mm is spot on if you have a true Production legal gun. You could get a holster and mag pouches pretty cheap as stated. Loading 9mm is little cheaper but no where near as a cost saving as .45

Practice is where its at.

[Soligen]

Best advice is to shoot what you have for now. If you ask around to someone who shoots your caliber, you are pretty likely to find someone who will let you visit and load on their press for an afternoon with your components. Its also a great way to learn about reloading and what you need to buy. I loaded my first 2500 rounds on someone else's press. There are also guys at my club who live close to each other and split the cost of the press.

If you go 9MM, get one that is production legal (not the SA). The reason is that you will be shooting Minor power factor, and that is only competitive in Production Division. If you like the CZ, the CZ 85 Combat gives you the option of starting SA, or DA once you are comfortable with manual de-cocking. It's what I have, and I really like it.

To be honest, even with the option I never start in SA mode. Since I shoot Production starting DA, I have trouble remembering to release the safety in SA mode - I would have to make a fairly long term switch to get used to it. I've shot a few classifers in other divisions just to get them on the books, as well as PPC, and still started DA so as not to screw myself up.

On the reloading note - I save about 5 cents a round loading 9mm. I put about $500 into a press and basic reloading equipment, and calculated payback at about 10,000 rounds - about 12 - 14 months for me. And, I have custom loaded ammo that shoots softer than factory. I sold my wife on a 1 year payback on the investment with no problem. Other calibers payback sooner, but it still saves me $5-600 a year, every year from now on going forward.

[RayKu]

Just finished my first season shooting IPSC and I have loved it. If you already have the 1911 stick with it for at least a few matches. You can shoot limited 10 or single stack if the club recognizes it. Be slow to spend money. There are lots of different options out there and you need to find what works best for you not simply which division but what type of pistol in each division. Try other peoples rigs and pistols during practice sessions and see what works for you or demo them at a range. If you get really hooked you will want to save your money for quality equipment which you can often find used here or at the USPSA website.

Have fun and be safe.

[Trisha Lowry]

Hi guys,

Finally took an into to IPSC class and had alot of fun. Plan to attend a few practices before I actually use my free match certificate. After hearing about the usual round counts for a match and how much ammo people use for practicing, I think I might use a 9mm CZ-75 SA instead of a .45 1911.

Yeah I know I should reload. I have access to the equipment, but to be honest I'm a little scared of reloading .

But my holster and mag pouches are all for the 1911. So I'm having a little trouble deciding. Save money by switching to a cheaper caliber, but spend some dough on new equipment. Or save money by using the equipment I have, but spend more on ammo?

Thanks for the help

Don't be put off by the reloading. When I walked into Dillon to get my reloader they had to ask me if I even owned a wrench :-) Talk to people that load and they will be happy to share different loads with you. Ask the experts! I shoot a CZ so I emailed Angus Hobdell and asked him for his load and he was happy to give it to me. The main thing is to pay attention. Yea during the first year I had several squibs and I will admit that I blew up a 1911 by double charging a 45 round....lesson learned PAY ATTENTION. I was playing with the load using a Dillon 550 that you have to index yourself and forgot to turn it as I was weighing the powder about every 3rd round as I adjusted it.... I won't ever make that mistake again. The bottom line is that even the most mechanically challenged can do it! And don't be afraid to call Dillon and ask for advice. The guys there are wonderful!

[chickenfried]

Thanks for the advice guys. Sorry I wasn't more clear, I already have the CZ-75 SAO, would just need the holster and magazine pouches.

Right now not worried about being competitive. Just want to have fun, be safe, and spend as little money as possible. So I'd be willing to shoot my CZ in limited 10, or is 9mm not allowed?

Appreciate the comments on reloading. I don't see myself ever reloading 9mm it's just so cheap for factory ammo. But .45 and 10mm definitely.

Short Round.......that sounds kinda familiar????? Were you at Richmond on Saturday? I was in that day's class. Saw you shoot the mini stage, fast even at 70% .

[ipscron2000]

Thanks for the advice guys. Sorry I wasn't more clear, I already have the CZ-75 SAO, would just need the holster and magazine pouches.

Right now not worried about being competitive. Just want to have fun, be safe, and spend as little money as possible. So I'd be willing to shoot my CZ in limited 10, or is 9mm not allowed?

Appreciate the comments on reloading. I don't see myself ever reloading 9mm it's just so cheap for factory ammo. But .45 and 10mm definitely.

Short Round.......that sounds kinda familiar????? Were you at Richmond on Saturday? I was in that day's class. Saw you shoot the mini stage, fast even at 70% .

If you want to do it cheap and fun. Buy BLAZER 9mm ammo at Walmart or Academy Sports and Uncle Mikes holster and pouches and have some fun. I just tried finding Uncle Mikes for you online and can't. Maybe someone else can chime in here with an address.

[bobert1]

Many shooters around here love Blade-Tech's DOH Holster

http://www.blade-tech.com/product.php?prod...24&cat=0&page=1

[shred]

Right now not worried about being competitive. Just want to have fun, be safe, and spend as little money as possible. So I'd be willing to shoot my CZ in limited 10, or is 9mm not allowed?

9mm is definately allowed in L10 and Limited, you just score Minor. That's not entirely a bad thing since working on accuracy is always a good thing. Later on if you want to get fancy I think you could put a SA/DA hammer in the CZ and go Production.

[Clay1]

Shred, do you think that it would be production legal to take a single action only pistol and make it a double action? This is a cut and paste on the external modification NROI ruling:

"Interpretation:

US Appendix D9 Production Division 21.5 "External modifications other than sights not allowed." This clause is not meant to prohibit exchanging external parts from one approved model handgun to another approved model handgun. Exchanging external parts from one approved model handgun to another approved model handgun from the same manufacturer is allowed, providing that the parts are original manufacturers parts and offered in their catalogs or on their handguns that otherwise meet division criteria. The following original manufacturer parts may be exchanged: Extended mag release, extended slide stop and external safeties including ambidextrious, provided they stay within the intent of the division. No added weights, no mag well attachments, no thumb rest or external devices used to help reduce recoil and/or muzzle flip may be exchanged. "

I'm learning and am just asking the question. I really don't know the answer. I understand that the hammer is an internal part, but can't find a rule addressing this. Thanks

Rick

Edited December 20, 2005 by Clay1

[RayKu]

Shooting L-10 minor is a great idea. Not only is the ammo cheaper, but it will penalize you for sloppy, inaccurate shooting so it is great practice.

[Vlad]

We are wondering of here, but I wonder about that conversion myself. Given that you would use parts approved for the normal 75B it SHOULD be legal to do it, but clearly this is one of those areas where someone should mail Amidon and ask. I'm tempted to buy a 75 SA myself and convert it to DA/SA because I like the beaver tail a lot better

And on topic, I shot L10 minor with my CZ for a while as well. I disliked having to decock my gun, and it sure was fun. After a while we want to stop being hurt by shooting minor, but I did make C class before I moved over to production.

[scorch]

I Understand the Fear of Reloading... Has to be some rocket science, you don't understand right? but it isn't. The 45 case gives you plenty of leeway to make SMALL mistakes. just like other on here said just pay attention and get someone that already reloads to walk you through it. keep the 45 it your best bet IMHO.

[short_round]

Short Round.......that sounds kinda familiar????? Were you at Richmond on Saturday? I was in that day's class.

That would be me. Glad to see that you made it to the forums so quickly. It's cool to see new shooters (to IPSC) get excited about the sport. There were I think around 11 people in that class, which is awesome!

Shooting what you have, in whichever division you can fit it in, with the least investment is a great idea at this point. I shot a Glock 23 (which is what I had already) with a Fobus paddle holster and Fobus paddle mag pouches in production for quite awhile before moving onto other things. That setup at the time was good enough for me to use while I learned the fundamentals. Not needing to run out and buy a whole bunch of stuff right away was nice and gave me time to research what I really wanted. It gave me time to ask a lot of questions.

If there is something you are thinking about buying chances are someone at the club has one that you can look at in person (maybe even try out) or personal experience with it and can give you an opinion.

See you on the range!

[jkrispies]

Now that we know that you already own the CZ... the real question is how much money you're willing to spend in the immediate future. The bottom line is that it's cheaper to buy Wal-mart 9mm or 9mm Blazer than it is to reload the stuff. If you're sticking with the .45... then there's no question to reload, IMHO. So, if your funds are very limited, just stick with the 9mm at Wally World, get some serious range time in with the CZ, and put off reloading for a later date. Having said that...

Reloading is a great hobby that perfectly compliments the shooting (and I think will make you a better shooter by making you MUCH more familiar with your equipment while simultaneously accurizing your guns), so you'll want to (and WILL) get into it anyway if you stick with the sport for any length of time. Why not just conquer your concerns, dive into the deep end of the pool, and get started sooner rather than later? And having said THAT...

While reloading will save you money in the long run, the initial investment can be very expensive. Buy a book or two first and talk to some reloaders beforehand so that you don't have any rude surprises (ie, "That scale I absolutely need costs HOW MUCH???"). Even if you can't afford to get into it now, do yourself a favor and get in the habit of collecting your empty brass (standing on top of an old bed sheet is the trick) so that you'll have a great big pile of it saved up for later.

[shred]

Shred, do you think that it would be production legal to take a single action only pistol and make it a double action? This is a cut and paste on the external modification NROI ruling:

I'm learning and am just asking the question. I really don't know the answer. I understand that the hammer is an internal part, but can't find a rule addressing this. Thanks

Rick

Hmm. I dunno. I was thinking that the SAO was just a SA/DA without the DA bits, in which case changing the parts around might be illegal, but IMHO firmly in the 'who cares?' category but from the other comments it sounds like they're different and then maybe not.

If all else fails, it's an excuse to get another gun

[Clay1]

If all else fails, it's an excuse to get another gun

I like the way that you think Shred.

Rick

[woodchuck]

.......... Even if you can't afford to get into it now, do yourself a favor and get in the habit of collecting your empty brass (standing on top of an old bed sheet is the trick) so that you'll have a great big pile of it saved up for later.

Even if you don't use it yourself later, you give it to someone else, and have a friend for life!

Seriously, if you stay in this sport long enough, you will probably end up reloading. I started just shooting one caliber - purchasing all the ammo. Over the years, I progressed to reloading on a single stage reloader and now a Dillon progressive reloader.

Once you have the reloading equipment, your shooting costs come way down - which for me, led to a lot more practice.

[rwmagnus]

Hi guys,

Finally took an into to IPSC class and had alot of fun. Plan to attend a few practices before I actually use my free match certificate. After hearing about the usual round counts for a match and how much ammo people use for practicing, I think I might use a 9mm CZ-75 SA instead of a .45 1911.

Yeah I know I should reload. I have access to the equipment, but to be honest I'm a little scared of reloading .

But my holster and mag pouches are all for the 1911. So I'm having a little trouble deciding. Save money by switching to a cheaper caliber, but spend some dough on new equipment. Or save money by using the equipment I have, but spend more on ammo?

Thanks for the help

Welcome to BE and to IPSC. +1 on all the responses so far. I'd add do both. Hard to go wrong with owning a holster and mag pouches for every pistol you own assuming you plan to use them. AND also reload! I'd also say forget reloading for 9mm but definately for 45ACP. You said you have access to reloading equipment which makes me think it's not yours. If that's the case the owner can walk you through safe reloading techniques. No way should you be afraid of reloading. I'm sure anyone you know that reloads would be happy to show you the ropes.

Enjoy the competition and have fun.

[Sam]

....to be honest I'm a little scared of reloading.

Don't sweat it man. That's what the eye protection is for.

Seriously, don't ever reload or shoot without it.

You should always be dressed like this guy:

That way when you gun blows up, (hey, it could happen!) your heart will still skip a beat, but your friends will be impressed that you took it so calmly. Well..... the first time it IS going to scare you. But, the second time your only concern is whether or not you damaged the gun. The third time, you just slap your forehead and swear "that is absolutely the last time I'm going to let that happen". So far, so good.......

[chickenfried]

That way when you gun blows up, (hey, it could happen!) your heart will still skip a beat, but your friends will be impressed that you took it so calmly. Well..... the first time it IS going to scare you. But, the second time your only concern is whether or not you damaged the gun. The third time, you just slap your forehead and swear "that is absolutely the last time I'm going to let that happen". So far, so good.......

[ipscbob]

Gotta agree, shoot what you currently have.