1911 barrel fitting jig question

[mofosheee]

Just received a new 1911 semi fit Wilson barrel.  I have a mill and steel.

Would somebody out there tell me why I shouldn't make my own barrel lock-up / alignment block for fitting the barrel?   Looks like a simple tool.

 

Thanks

[mike cyrwus]

No reason at all. If you can get it accurate down to a thou and a half or so 

[mofosheee]

Thought so.  Thanks for backing me up!

[zzt]

If you are talking about fitting the hood only, the alignment block will do fine.  If you are talking about cutting the bottom lugs, you need more than that.

[mofosheee]

I made the alignment block and fitted the hood yesterday (easy enough)

Yes, zzt.  Today, trying to find a work around for cutting the bottom lugs without buying the tool.

I don't see a better option after looking at the Brownells lug cutter.  Probably have to bite the bullet

Thanks

Edited March 2, 2023 by mofosheee

[Braxton1]

If you have a 5mm end mill (the closest end mill size to a true .200"), you can successfully cut the lower lugs without a jig.  Set-up will be the key, as with all milling operations.

 

The Weigand jig just makes set-up ten times faster and easier.

[zzt]

6 hours ago, mofosheee said:

I don't see a better option after looking at the Brownells lug cutter.  Probably have to bite the bullet

Thanks

 

Don't buy the Brownell's lug cutter.  The finish is so coarse you will remove too much metal trying to stone or sand out the machining marks.  Their barrel holding tool is also crap.   I learned the hard way, so you don't have to.  Their .195 cutter removes too much.  If you insist on Brownell's, use the .186 for roughing.  You'll have about .008" left to remove  It's a PITA, but doable.

 

Nowlin makes a superb centering/holding tool.  Used in conjunction with your alignment block, you are assured of a perfectly centered barrel.  https://www.nowlinarms.com/product/barrel-feet-alignment-tool/

 

Chambers Custom makes superb barrel leg cutters.  https://www.store.chamberscustom.com/products/1911-barrel-leg-cutters  Many different diameters, including custom.  You could start with a .192" or .193.  Beautiful finish and not much left to remove by hand, if any.  You'll have to order a pilot with the cutter and you'll need the Brownell's handle, or something like it.  Don't turn the cutter backwards or you will dull it.  This adds up quickly, but it is better than ruining a barrel.

 

The Weigand jig is nice if you are going to do a lot of barrels.  At the current price of $399 plus shipping it's not worth it for a couple of barrels.

 

BTW, a 5mm end mill is .1969".  Too large.  If you can find a resharpened 5mm, that might do.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by zzt

[ltdmstr]

How is at 5mm mill too large?  Most aftermarket slide stops are .198-.200, which is why the instructions for my Weigand fixture specify a 5mm end mill.  That's what I've used for years and never had a single issue.  Also, cutting the lugs without a LE Wilson-style cutter (Brownells copy and others) is easily done with a shop-made fixture.

[MikeBurgess]

On 3/2/2023 at 6:02 AM, mofosheee said:

I made the alignment block and fitted the hood yesterday (easy enough)

Yes, zzt.  Today, trying to find a work around for cutting the bottom lugs without buying the tool.

I don't see a better option after looking at the Brownells lug cutter.  Probably have to bite the bullet

Thanks

 

I made my own barrel cutting jig, works pretty well, and lets me cut it a little large test fit with gage pins and then pop it back in and make final cut

 

[zzt]

5 hours ago, ltdmstr said:

How is at 5mm mill too large?

 

Duh!  It isn't.  My mind was still on the Chambers Custom cutters.

[mofosheee]

18 hours ago, zzt said:

 

Don't buy the Brownell's lug cutter.  The finish is so coarse you will remove too much metal trying to stone or sand out the machining marks.  Their barrel holding tool is also crap.   I learned the hard way, so you don't have to.  Their .195 cutter removes too much.  If you insist on Brownell's, use the .186 for roughing.  You'll have about .008" left to remove  It's a PITA, but doable.

 

Nowlin makes a superb centering/holding tool.  Used in conjunction with your alignment block, you are assured of a perfectly centered barrel.  https://www.nowlinarms.com/product/barrel-feet-alignment-tool/

 

Chambers Custom makes superb barrel leg cutters.  https://www.store.chamberscustom.com/products/1911-barrel-leg-cutters  Many different diameters, including custom.  You could start with a .192" or .193.  Beautiful finish and not much left to remove by hand, if any.  You'll have to order a pilot with the cutter and you'll need the Brownell's handle, or something like it.  Don't turn the cutter backwards or you will dull it.  This adds up quickly, but it is better than ruining a barrel.

 

The Weigand jig is nice if you are going to do a lot of barrels.  At the current price of $399 plus shipping it's not worth it for a couple of barrels.

 

BTW, a 5mm end mill is .1969".  Too large.  If you can find a resharpened 5mm, that might do.

 

 

Now you tell me    Yes, the tool looked rather course.   I bought the;  0 .186" cutter.    Agree, Weigand is nice but I only have one barrel to do.  

[MikeBurgess]

thanks to Shred for fixing my image

 

more jig info, because someone asked.

I was inspired to make the jig after watching Nevermiss post a video showing cutting barrel feet on a fancy Haas CNC, I built it so it would work on a manual mill or my little cnc. 

The barrel aligning V-block portion is angled at 1 degree so the flats will be in line with the barrel as it sits when in lockup.

Under the lug where you can't see is a setscrew that is adjusted to get the barrel sitting level, the washer on the end is a stop for the hood, together this allows for the barrel to be removed and replaced without loosing position. 

 

In use I find center of the link hole and mill a skim cut to the lockup location I want check lockup and foot engagement with gage pins then put it back in the jig and mill off some more, I really should just go to finished dim but I am a chicken so I  sneak up on it in several cuts checking in between. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mofosheee]

Nice work on the jig Mike!

Edited March 3, 2023 by mofosheee

[zzt]

4 hours ago, MikeBurgess said:

I really should just go to finished dim but I am a chicken so I  sneak up on it in several cuts checking in between. 

 

It's okay to be a chicken.  I ruined a barrel by not playing it safe.  I cut a little too much off another and had to use a 2.5 link instead of a 3.

[Cam73]

Very nice fixture Mike!!

 

I took a shot at a modified version of a fixture made by BE member Meat Target. The original write up can be found here:

His design is excellent and super functional, but does require a rotary table.

 

Having already purchased a rotary table, it made more sense to make a fixture than purchase the Weigand. I modified the design to use gage blocks (or pins) to support the side of the lower lugs while clamping the barrel. There is a gage pin that travels through the barrel link pin hole and the fixture then into the head of MT3 taper pin installed in the rotary table.

 

I've cut 3 barrels on the fixture with good results. Not 100% slide stop pin contact Joe C sharpie challenge type stuff, but good none the less. All 3 barrels have been KKM and it's not really been necessary to rotate the table and cut the radius. Didn't actually end up using the fixture to cut the hood width or length either, the Everglades fixture is just too easy.

 

Just like the Weignad (from what I've read), how you install the barrel and snug it down between test fits has a lot to do with repeatability. The tension on the gage pin is a pretty good indicator of mis-alignment. There are several things I would change if doing it again and would probably go the route mike went with the 1* built in, use it for lower lugs only and skip the rotary table.

 

 

[MikeBurgess]

On 3/3/2023 at 4:49 PM, Cam73 said:

Very nice fixture Mike!!

 

I took a shot at a modified version of a fixture made by BE member Meat Target. The original write up can be found here:

His design is excellent and super functional, but does require a rotary table.

 

Having already purchased a rotary table, it made more sense to make a fixture than purchase the Weigand. I modified the design to use gage blocks (or pins) to support the side of the lower lugs while clamping the barrel. There is a gage pin that travels through the barrel link pin hole and the fixture then into the head of MT3 taper pin installed in the rotary table.

 

I've cut 3 barrels on the fixture with good results. Not 100% slide stop pin contact Joe C sharpie challenge type stuff, but good none the less. All 3 barrels have been KKM and it's not really been necessary to rotate the table and cut the radius. Didn't actually end up using the fixture to cut the hood width or length either, the Everglades fixture is just too easy.

 

Just like the Weignad (from what I've read), how you install the barrel and snug it down between test fits has a lot to do with repeatability. The tension on the gage pin is a pretty good indicator of mis-alignment. There are several things I would change if doing it again and would probably go the route mike went with the 1* built in, use it for lower lugs only and skip the rotary table.

 

 

 

Very cool

 

I love the gage block positioning, turning a 8-32 screw is not as precise as I would like. 

[mofosheee]

Hello BE Forum

 

It's well known that it can be easier to spend more money on fixtures and tooling than it is on a part.  For example, the

obscenely priced carbide lug cutter from Brownell's.  I do not do enough of these to justify the expense. 

 

Does anyone have records of an improvised tool / fixture for cutting a 1911-barrel hood other than a good ole file or the unobtainable $$$$ Everglades tool?   I'd like to see your tooling pictures.  Thanks again for all the responses!

 

 

 

[Cam73]

PTG used to sell a fixture that was the same general idea as the Everglades, but I don't see it on their site anymore and don't recall the mfg.

 

This one is inexpensive and will do what you want (currently out of stock):

https://www.egwguns.com/1911-barrel-block-lock-up-gauge

 

If you google around a little bit there are some examples of what is essentially a barrel collet block. Square stock, bored for the barrel with a pocket milled in one end to locate the lower lugs (like the everglades) and a slot cut through to the bore along one long side to create a flexure. The fixture you will see posted by the late great Jerry Keefer is top shelf.

[shred]

Kuhnhausen has some simple jigs drawn in his books that work if you don't want to spring for the fancy jigs.

 

Or find a gunsmith that's moved to CNC barrel fits and has a pile of jigs lying around doing nothing.