2023 IDPA rules changes

[matteekay]

Subbing in case we actually hear something...

[Racinready300ex]

I'm hearing rule change is vary close too, like any day. Things I've heard is clarification that magwells on legions for example aren't legal in SSP. Shocker, but people were doing it. Tweaks to holster rules again, apparently drop offset became to popular with the last change. I'm sure there will be several little adjustments that require close reading to find. 

 

I'd assume they clarify that fault line rule change that messed everyone up in the beginning. 

[ddc]

10 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

I'm hearing rule change is vary close too, like any day. Things I've heard is clarification that magwells on legions for example aren't legal in SSP. Shocker, but people were doing it. Tweaks to holster rules again, apparently drop offset became to popular with the last change. I'm sure there will be several little adjustments that require close reading to find. 

 

I'd assume they clarify that fault line rule change that messed everyone up in the beginning. 

 

I wonder if this is an indication that they will be more pro-active with clarifications in the future.

That would be nice.

[riden]

On 1/12/2023 at 8:48 AM, Racinready300ex said:

I'm hearing rule change is vary close too, like any day. Things I've heard is clarification that magwells on legions for example aren't legal in SSP. Shocker, but people were doing it. Tweaks to holster rules again, apparently drop offset became to popular with the last change. I'm sure there will be several little adjustments that require close reading to find. 

 

I'd assume they clarify that fault line rule change that messed everyone up in the beginning. 

Also, hearing factory ported barrels or slides acting like compensators will be permitted. 

[Racinready300ex]

43 minutes ago, riden said:

Also, hearing factory ported barrels or slides acting like compensators will be permitted. 

 

That would seem crazy to me but I wouldn't really doubt it either. It's one of those if you're going to allow them just allow them. Don't make me sell my gun and buy a new one when $100 could port my barrel. 

[MarilynMonbro]

Sweet. Ported barrels and built-in comps are legal in ESP

 

Brass base pads are not legal anymore

[SSGGlock]

New rule book posted on website. Takes effect immediately.

[matteekay]

The most relevant highlights (IMHO)

• Ported barrels, or comps that are integral to the gun are allowed in ESP. Comps cannot be removable or threaded, so something integral like the P365 XL Comp is legal but anything on the end of the barrel is not.
• Revolver is now a specialty division like BUG and PCC
• All specialty divisions are optional at Level 2 - 5 matches (Gee... thanks.)
• Grip safeties can be defeated (on a re-read, they removed the language but this is probably still forbidden)
• Two hands can be used for retention shots
• Holsters cannot hold the gun further away from the belt than the width of one loading device

 

There's a lot of other misc language cleanup and the like but these are the big points. Let me know if there's something I missed.

Edited January 16, 2023 by matteekay

[deerslayer]

Looks like no new fault line wording to clarify all the confusion with the 3-8’ rule.  The Lund/Ehrler clarification cleared it up, but it seems like the new book would have some different wording

 

Also, what is the purpose of 3.5.11.1?  And what is “concealment” referring to?

Edited January 16, 2023 by deerslayer

[matteekay]

9 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

Looks like no new fault line wording to clarify all the confusion with the 3-8’ rule.  The Lund/Ehrler clarification cleared it up, but it seems like the new book would have some different wording

 

Also, what is the purpose of 3.5.11.1?  And what is “concealment” referring to?

 

I think it's meant to mean "from behind a vision barrier", so still in the open. The way I read that, it just means that you can move to a position of cover if one is available and continue engaging the same array. If I'm right, I think you could always do that, but maybe there was some confusion?

[deerslayer]

12 minutes ago, matteekay said:

 

I think it's meant to mean "from behind a vision barrier", so still in the open. The way I read that, it just means that you can move to a position of cover if one is available and continue engaging the same array. If I'm right, I think you could always do that, but maybe there was some confusion?

Kinda what I was thinking, but “concealment” has always referred to hiding the gun.  3.5.11.1 says “when the shooter runs the firearm empty in the open or from behind concealment...”  If “vision barrier” or “soft cover” were used instead of “concealment” it would eliminate some confusion (some bozo will inevitably substitute “cover” for “concealment”).  
 

Whatever they meant, I’m not sure why 3.5.11.1 was even added. 

Edited January 16, 2023 by deerslayer

[deerslayer]

25 minutes ago, matteekay said:

The most relevant highlights (IMHO)

• Ported barrels, or comps that are integral to the gun are allowed in ESP. Comps cannot be removable or threaded, so something integral like the P365 XL Comp is legal but anything on the end of the barrel is not.
• Revolver is now a specialty division like BUG and PCC
• All specialty divisions are optional at Level 2 - 5 matches (Gee... thanks.)
• Grip safeties can be defeated
• Two hands can be used for retention shots
• Holsters cannot hold the gun further away from the belt than the width of one loading device

 

There's a lot of other misc language cleanup and the like but these are the big points. Let me know if there's something I missed.

Where did you read that grip safeties can be disabled?

[matteekay]

3 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

Kinda what I was thinking, but “concealment” has always referred to hiding the gun.  3.5.11.1 says “when the shooter runs the firearm empty in the open or from behind concealment...”  If “vision barrier” or “soft cover” were used instead of “concealment” it would eliminate some confusion (some bozo will inevitably substitute “cover” for “concealment”).  
 

Whatever they meant, I’m not sure why 3.5.11.1 was even added. 

 

Agreed, it feels like an unneeded clarification. Oh well.

[usmc1974]

And so, Your saying comps did make it in the IDPA?  Because if they come in any shape form or fashion it will only get worse. Not that it can get much worth, with crazy rules and out of control rule book that now control it.

Edited January 16, 2023 by usmc1974

[matteekay]

1 minute ago, deerslayer said:

Where did you read that grip safeties can be disabled?

 

Actually, I might be wrong.

 

"8.1.7.5 – removed text “any”, and “grip safeties"

 

So 8.1.7.4* now reads: "Disconnecting or disabling of safety devices including (but not limited to): manual safeties, firing pin, striker, and hammer blocking safeties." I guess they may still be covered under the "but not limited to".

 

*Really, IDPA? You gave the wrong rule number in your own changelog? It's hard enough to keep up.

[deerslayer]

2 minutes ago, usmc1974 said:

And so, Your saying comps did make it in the IDPA?  Because if they come in any shape form a fashion it will only get worse. Not that it can get much worth, with crazy rules and out of control rule book that now control it.

Yes, ported barrels and comped slides (no comps on the end of a threaded barrel).  I don’t like them, but if people

shooting minor ammo think they will now shoot faster splits, whatever.  

[MarilynMonbro]

5 minutes ago, usmc1974 said:

And so, Your saying comps did make it in the IDPA?  Because if they come in any shape form or fashion it will only get worse. Not that it can get much worth, with crazy rules and out of control rule book that now control it.

Screw on or pinned on comps that are removable are not legal 

[GmanCdp]

4 minutes ago, matteekay said:

 

Actually, I might be wrong.

 

"8.1.7.5 – removed text “any”, and “grip safeties"

 

So 8.1.7.4* now reads: "Disconnecting or disabling of safety devices including (but not limited to): manual safeties, firing pin, striker, and hammer blocking safeties." I guess they may still be covered under the "but not limited to".

 

*Really, IDPA? You gave the wrong rule number in your own changelog? It's hard enough to keep up.

Hahahaha..nothing new to see.

i really wish they would have put ESR in with CDP..

put  8 shot Revolvers in ESP

put 6 shooters in CCP ...

 

[erwos]

Does anyone have the link to the equipment appendices? For some reason the IDPA website makes the rulebook easy to find, but provides no obvious link to the equipment appendices.

[usmc1974]

10 minutes ago, MarilynMonbro said:

Screw on or pinned on comps that are removable are not legal 

Initial ideal of IDPA (1996) has been long lost.  but, the addition of any kind of comp/porting just finishes it off.

[erwos]

1 minute ago, usmc1974 said:

Initial ideal of IDPA (1996) has been long lost.  but, the addition of any kind of comp/porting just finishes it off.

I'm going to disagree slightly. The gun world looked much, much different in 1996 than it does today. If companies are marketing defensive pistols with high cap mags, ports, and comps, is it more game-y to allow them or not allow them because you want to preserve the game?

 

I don't have strong feelings either way, but it's worth thinking on.

[matteekay]

4 minutes ago, erwos said:

Does anyone have the link to the equipment appendices? For some reason the IDPA website makes the rulebook easy to find, but provides no obvious link to the equipment appendices.

 

Good call.

 

Here are the changelogs:

• Rulebook (CL)
• Equipment Appendices (CL)
• MAR (CL)

 

Here are the final docs:

• Rulebook
• Equipment Appendices
• MAR

[matteekay]

4 minutes ago, erwos said:

I'm going to disagree slightly. The gun world looked much, much different in 1996 than it does today. If companies are marketing defensive pistols with high cap mags, ports, and comps, is it more game-y to allow them or not allow them because you want to preserve the game?

 

I don't have strong feelings either way, but it's worth thinking on.

 

I'll +1 this. As a match director, I've seen a steady increase in new shooters with factory guns (particularly in CO) that are compensated in some way. Frankly, I wish they didn't preclude screw-on comps; they basically made Sig's guns legal and outlawed everything else (Shadow Systems, Hellcat, etc). It's sorta like the X5's "heavy" barrel all over again.

 

Having said that, I'm deciding what gun I want to port strictly out of spite.

[Racinready300ex]

In my area people were running legions with the stock magwell in ssp because they claimed it was factory and they didn't "add it on" under the old rules. AC agreed. This has clarified and put a end to that.

[deerslayer]

I had two hopes for the new book (but neither happened):

 

- make clear the intent spelled out in the fault line clarification that was issued after the 2022 book was released and possibly even eliminate the unnecessary 3-8’ requirement for fault lines

 

- tidy up the wording about shooting the gun empty in the open and when/where a reload is appropriate.  I have seen questionable PEs issued when a target in the open is after 10 shots from cover and the shooter was supposedly exposed to that open target before they completed their reload.  Seems a little subjective to make that call.  Something like “you must either shoot the gun empty in the open before starting a reload OR complete a reload before leaving cover if the next target is in the open” would help.  No more reloading after leaving cover but before being exposed to a target in the open.