Joe4d Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 3 hours ago, GJM said: As I read the new rules, IDPA is pretty much mandating appendix carry. or cross draw, tanker rigs or shoulder holster,, Seriously from seated in a car ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSGGlock Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) Been a lot easier if they would have just kept the holster rule with simply. “Must be completely concealed in the start position.” Start position is hands relaxed at sides. I’ve never started any stage with my arms and hands sticking out parallel to the ground. Just like the gun rules. Size and weight is established. Why care what has been done to the gun as long as it meets size and weight and all safeties functions. If you add brass and tungsten, what does it matter as long as it makes weight. Set the criteria and leave it alone. Edited January 30, 2023 by SSGGlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, SSGGlock said: Been a lot easier if they would have just kept the holster rule with simply. “Must be completely concealed in the start position.” Start position is hands relaxed at sides. I’ve never started any stage with my arms and hands sticking out parallel to the ground. Some times, I'll see hands on marks similar to uspsa starts. Depending how high the marks are, how you stand and how low your holster is you might poke out the bottom some. A evil MD could set up a stage with the marks up high and tag everyone as their vest rides up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSGGlock Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 12 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: Some times, I'll see hands on marks similar to uspsa starts. Depending how high the marks are, how you stand and how low your holster is you might poke out the bottom some. A evil MD could set up a stage with the marks up high and tag everyone as their vest rides up. Yeah hands forward touching marks done that, I’m talking about out to the sides. How idpa checks your cover garment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 Just now, SSGGlock said: Yeah hands forward touching marks done that, I’m talking about out to the sides. How idpa checks your cover garment. I get that, I'm sure it was meant to be a generic repeatable way to check that your gear would stay covered under normal movement, with out needing to check every possible angle. It'd be vary easy for me to test my gear in this manner and know that I pass before the match. If it says must be concealed in the start position I have no way to really test myself. If your holster is visible does the RO then just tell you to adjust until it's not visible or do you DNF for not having legal gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSGGlock Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 Arms relaxed at sides is just as repeatable as your arms sticking straight out to the sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 19 minutes ago, SSGGlock said: Arms relaxed at sides is just as repeatable as your arms sticking straight out to the sides. True, either way seems fine. The key is really just spell out what they want us to do and then leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 You know a lot of states today have constitutional or open carry laws, Like here in Kansas. You don't have to conceal anything. Just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 27 minutes ago, usmc1974 said: You know a lot of states today have constitutional or open carry laws, Like here in Kansas. You don't have to conceal anything. Just saying Are you making the case to move more in the direction of uspsa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: Are you making the case to move more in the direction of uspsa? No, just saying. Maybe they should cut the shooters a little slack.. Edited January 30, 2023 by usmc1974 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKGamer Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said: I get that, I'm sure it was meant to be a generic repeatable way to check that your gear would stay covered under normal movement, with out needing to check every possible angle. It'd be vary easy for me to test my gear in this manner and know that I pass before the match. If it says must be concealed in the start position I have no way to really test myself. If your holster is visible does the RO then just tell you to adjust until it's not visible or do you DNF for not having legal gear? Would you really DNF? My understanding of the rules, unless it changed in the last 2 changes and I didn't catch it, is that not wearing a cover garment when required is one "PE". It is up to the ahooter to remember to put it on, and you don't get a re-shoot for the SO starting you out of position. If you found the "special" SO DNFing people, don't wear cover, take the 3 second PE on that stage and take that match off your calendar moving forward. The 2022 and 2023 rule changes are a disaster. If you don't think that there are regional interpretations of the new fault line and reloading before leaving cover rules, among others, you are not traveling for matches. The fault line rule was added to cover garbage stage design, where designers were to lazy to add a wall or a couple barrels. The reloading before leaving a position of cover is another disaster, especially if you are not crossing the fault line, but moving in the oppisite direction. In fairness, changing the dropped mag rule to only no ammo in the mag, makes it much easier on the SOs to accurately to determine PEs for dropping loaded mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 11 minutes ago, AKGamer said: Would you really DNF? My understanding of the rules, unless it changed in the last 2 changes and I didn't catch it, is that not wearing a cover garment when required is one "PE". It is up to the ahooter to remember to put it on, and you don't get a re-shoot for the SO starting you out of position. If you found the "special" SO DNFing people, don't wear cover, take the 3 second PE on that stage and take that match off your calendar moving forward. The 2022 and 2023 rule changes are a disaster. If you don't think that there are regional interpretations of the new fault line and reloading before leaving cover rules, among others, you are not traveling for matches. The fault line rule was added to cover garbage stage design, where designers were to lazy to add a wall or a couple barrels. The reloading before leaving a position of cover is another disaster, especially if you are not crossing the fault line, but moving in the oppisite direction. In fairness, changing the dropped mag rule to only no ammo in the mag, makes it much easier on the SOs to accurately to determine PEs for dropping loaded mags. I wasn't commenting on not wearing cover, it was about a illegal holster. Above someone mentioned making the rule "holster must be completely concealed in the start position" So if you're gun is exposed due to the start position that's not a incorrect start that becomes illegal equipment. I have seen someone get dq'd for failing the dowel test when that was the rule. The draw back to that method was some holsters were legal if you were round enough and illegal if you were to thin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 38 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: I have seen someone get dq'd for failing the dowel test when that was the rule. The draw back to that method was some holsters were legal if you were round enough and illegal if you were to thin. The dowel test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leadaddict Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 16 minutes ago, usmc1974 said: The dowel test? From the older rulebook, rule 8.5Q Q. For male shooters only, the holsters must fit the shooter’s body such that a ¾ inch diameter dowel placed between the shooter and the firearm anywhere above the belt contacts both the shooter and the firearm simultaneously Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKGamer Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said: I wasn't commenting on not wearing cover, it was about a illegal holster. Above someone mentioned making the rule "holster must be completely concealed in the start position" So if you're gun is exposed due to the start position that's not a incorrect start that becomes illegal equipment. I have seen someone get dq'd for failing the dowel test when that was the rule. The draw back to that method was some holsters were legal if you were round enough and illegal if you were to thin. You are correct. If it didn't cover durring equipment check, you were hosed. The gamer workaround for a single stage would be to not wear cover for that stage and take the three second PE, IF your vest were an inch too short with your arms straight overhead or whatever the oddball start might be. At least "forgetting" cover used to be a 3 second PE for not following the written stage brief, not a DQ. I've never seen an SO say anything about cover garments durring abnormal starts though. 3.7.3 - If an SO determines that a shooter was allowed to start in an incorrect start position (at the time the “Standby” command was given,) a reshoot is mandatory and no penalty is assessed. Note: This rule does not apply to equipment start condition (e.g., loaded with correct number of rounds or wearing a concealment garment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 21 minutes ago, AKGamer said: You are correct. If it didn't cover durring equipment check, you were hosed. The gamer workaround for a single stage would be to not wear cover for that stage and take the three second PE, IF your vest were an inch too short with your arms straight overhead or whatever the oddball start might be. At least "forgetting" cover used to be a 3 second PE for not following the written stage brief, not a DQ. I've never seen an SO say anything about cover garments durring abnormal starts though. 3.7.3 - If an SO determines that a shooter was allowed to start in an incorrect start position (at the time the “Standby” command was given,) a reshoot is mandatory and no penalty is assessed. Note: This rule does not apply to equipment start condition (e.g., loaded with correct number of rounds or wearing a concealment garment). Now I'm with you, that would make sense. I feel like we worry to much about the concealment thing anyway. With a really stiff competition vest they have almost no impact on your shooting, so who cares if the muzzle sticks out the bottom a little or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 On 1/27/2023 at 6:41 AM, RangerTrace said: Can you show the the exact verbiage about the dropped/offset holster? Mine is still covered by the vest. I think that the biggest thing to be careful about regarding drop/offset (in addition to the offset part of how far from the belt the gun can be) is 8.5.12: "All IDPA legal holsters must hold the butt of the firearm clearly above the top of the belt. Concealment and cant angle rules apply." So just be careful how much "drop" you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 So the chicks don't get a break any more. My protege will be affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted January 31, 2023 Share Posted January 31, 2023 4 hours ago, Thomas H said: I think that the biggest thing to be careful about regarding drop/offset (in addition to the offset part of how far from the belt the gun can be) is 8.5.12: "All IDPA legal holsters must hold the butt of the firearm clearly above the top of the belt. Concealment and cant angle rules apply." So just be careful how much "drop" you have. It looked like more and more appendix carried, Is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas H Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 21 hours ago, usmc1974 said: It looked like more and more appendix carried, Is the way to go. I don't see the current rules for holster being appreciably different than previous ones, OTHER than they are slightly more lax in specifics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 13 minutes ago, Thomas H said: I don't see the current rules for holster being appreciably different than previous ones, OTHER than they are slightly more lax in specifics. The change is 8.5.1.13 "May not extend away from the belt more than the width of a spare magazine" If you were still legal under the old dowel rule you'll be good now. But the 2022 version had no stipulation on offset as long as it was concealed. As a example, it's possible that a offset that's legal on a 2011 wouldn't be legal on a 1911 because the magazines are thinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 On 1/16/2023 at 2:46 PM, Racinready300ex said: I can't wait to be able to run a comp with ports and 105 pf 9mm ammo. Somebody drilled his CCP gun before florida state and it didn't work, surprise! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 1, 2023 Share Posted February 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, waktasz said: Somebody drilled his CCP gun before florida state and it didn't work, surprise! lol Kind of awesome. Tried to get that last minute edge with no time to test. What could go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Less Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 4 hours ago, waktasz said: Somebody drilled his CCP gun before florida state and it didn't work, surprise! lol What are you doing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 trolling, usually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now