Orion1 Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 Can I re-use these once-crimped bullets w/o changing the process? These are lead Brazos 115gr bullets, were produced by myself, but determined the load was off. The first three rounds to the left measure 0.3545" diameter and the uncrimped, new bullet measures 0.356". https://ibb.co/3dNm9M0 Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 I wouldn't use them. They were overcrimped and are now undersized. Would most likely not be very accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 Man, that's a ton of crimp. But I'd still shoot them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 I agree with @GrumpyOne. Way too much crimp! I would toss them in the "lesson learned" bin and try again with unused bullets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 6 hours ago, Orion1 said: Can I re-use these once-crimped bullets w/o changing the process? These are lead Brazos 115gr bullets, were produced by myself, but determined the load was off. The first three rounds to the left measure 0.3545" diameter and the uncrimped, new bullet measures 0.356". https://ibb.co/3dNm9M0 Thanks If you don't mind us asking, what is the load that you thought was incorrect and what are you crimping those to? The crimp should be bullet diameter (.356) + case wall thickness x 2, E.G. .356 + .011 (x2) = .378. Those, by the math, are probably crimped to around .367. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Load up some of those and load up some new ones. Compare groups. You'll probably be surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 (edited) You can’t always blame the crimp. I tested some 10mm where I seated the bullets, let them sit a while and then pulled them. All were undersized by .0005-.001 or better from just being squeezed by the brass. Even the jacketed bullets showed some resizing and I had barely crimped them. I have re- loaded some and yes, with lighter loads accuracy does suffer. Edited November 20, 2022 by Farmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 can we agree that IF the base of a lead bullet is somehow squeezed to a smaller size... that is swaging the bullet ? I want that distinction because a properly crimped case will not squeeze the bullet. the swaged bullets should be... melted. the cause of the swaged bottoms is the expander die is not quite opening the case enough OR I know Lee's FCD will swage lead bullets in 9mm. the plain ole taper crimp is good for lead bullets. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGA Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Slightly off topic but swaging is increasing the diameter and drawing is decreasing the diameter. I have been drawing copper jackets and using these to swage jacketed bullets (.224, 308 and .355) for 13 years and this is the terminology used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrayfk05 Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 Than you have been using the wrong terms for 13 years verb (used with object), swaged, swag·ing. to bend or shape by means of a swage. to reduce or taper (an object), as by forging or squeezing. On topic: load a handful and see how they work. Only way to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGA Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 (edited) Hi, I guess Dave Corbin and the rest of the bullet swaging community is wrong too than. This comes from his website: Swaging is the opposite of drawing. When you DRAW a bullet or jacket, you push it through an open ring die that reduces the size. When you SWAGE a bullet, you expand it to a slightly larger size in a pressure-sealed die. You can draw down, but you always swage up. http://www.corbins.com/intro.htm But after checking I noticed the term has different definitions in different contexts. That I never realized but we are using it in the context of bullets here. On topic: Personally I'd shoot the projectiles in the picture without reservations. Edited November 20, 2022 by RGA correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion1 Posted November 20, 2022 Author Share Posted November 20, 2022 (edited) 15 hours ago, GrumpyOne said: If you don't mind us asking, what is the load that you thought was incorrect and what are you crimping those to? The crimp should be bullet diameter (.356) + case wall thickness x 2, E.G. .356 + .011 (x2) = .378. Those, by the math, are probably crimped to around .367. These are crimped at 0.376. Most of my rounds were crimped at 0.378, but some of these were crimped unintentionally too low. Thanks for the feedback 16 hours ago, HOGRIDER said: I agree with @GrumpyOne. Way too much crimp! I would toss them in the "lesson learned" bin and try again with unused bullets! You got it! Thanks for the feedback Edited November 20, 2022 by Orion1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 28 minutes ago, Orion1 said: These are crimped at 0.376. Most of my rounds were crimped at 0.378, but some of these were crimped unintentionally too low. Thanks for the feedback You got it! Thanks for the feedback YW! Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrytheWind Posted November 20, 2022 Share Posted November 20, 2022 I was under the impression that we crimp to remove the bell. This would be just enough, and that there would never be any reason to over crimp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 6 hours ago, ParrytheWind said: I was under the impression that we crimp to remove the bell. This would be just enough, and that there would never be any reason to over crimp. True. If you "crimp" correctly on a lead or coated bullet, when pulled after loading, it should have no ring and should basically look pristine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 yeah terms and usage have changed a bit over the years. in a 38 special round the case mouth is curved inward to hold the bullet in place. setback is eliminated in that style of ammo making. and the die was called a crimp... because the case was crimped. that name 'crimp' is what we use for that step in reloading where we form the case mouth to meet ammo specs. I read "old fashioned roll crimp" used to describe a rim cased round. I don't know off hand who designed the 9mm round... but they wanted a tapered round for automatic feed and the case was to stop in the chamber using the case mouth. so no rolling... I also understood the round was military and expected to be copper jacketed. so neck tension was expected to prevent setback. Lead bullets have a reputation for being problematic for setback in 9mm miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 18 hours ago, RGA said: Slightly off topic but swaging is increasing the diameter and drawing is decreasing the diameter. I have been drawing copper jackets and using these to swage jacketed bullets (.224, 308 and .355) for 13 years and this is the terminology used. ok... we use words to convey ideas and I was and still am trying to make these discussions easier for everyone to understand. If you had asked me to explain what is swage versus draw I'd have said swage is to form by compression and draw is to form by tension. jewelers often make wire into a thinner wire by drawing it. the copper jackets are made by a process called drawing... and I think calling it 'drawing' is a term of art because I see both compression and tension in the process. and I agree that most of the jacket is formed by the copper being tensioned, so it is drawing. Making brass cases seem to have both draw and swage as steps in the process... I know that you can swage lead wire from a large gob of lead so the increase and decrease are not indicators of swaging. a reloading press is ok at compressing... not thinking it can draw a lead bullet into a case. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandbagger123 Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 i have reused bullets like that in the past for blasting ammo not expecting much accuracy. as long as the case has been resized i had no issue with set back. the cases,if you plan on resuing them with the present unfired primer in them , needs to be resized without a decap rod in it. i pick up a lot of 9mm ammo off the ground, break them down and reuse them . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion1 Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 I corrected the crimp from 0.3765 to 0.378". Does this look better than my previous crimped ammo on this thread? https://ibb.co/XbDB9qp Here are four lead bullets with a lot of crimp 0.376 (left) to 0.378:0.3785 (right). https://ibb.co/wshW46r Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 20 minutes ago, Orion1 said: I corrected the crimp from 0.3765 to 0.378". Does this look better than my previous crimped ammo on this thread? https://ibb.co/XbDB9qp Here are four lead bullets with a lot of crimp 0.376 (left) to 0.378:0.3785 (right). https://ibb.co/wshW46r You are still crimping too much. In the first picture, I can see the case mouth as it squeezes into the bullet head. The case wall should be (in a perfect world) be absolutely straight, all the way to the end of the case mouth. But yes, the bullet on the far right of the 2nd pic looks much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion1 Posted November 21, 2022 Author Share Posted November 21, 2022 29 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said: You are still crimping too much. In the first picture, I can see the case mouth as it squeezes into the bullet head. The case wall should be (in a perfect world) be absolutely straight, all the way to the end of the case mouth. But yes, the bullet on the far right of the 2nd pic looks much better. Well shoot, the first picture passed the plunk/twist test and none did on the second picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 21, 2022 Share Posted November 21, 2022 30 minutes ago, Orion1 said: Well shoot, the first picture passed the plunk/twist test and none did on the second picture. These are not mine...but, you can see the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) The problem with all of this is you can crimp enough to put a ring around the bullet but when you extract the round out of the die the brass springs back but the bullet doesn’t. So when you measure, depending on how work hardened your brass is you can get a bunch of different readings. I just crimp until it fits and call it good. If accuracy goes to pot then it’s usually too much. Most all my rounds have a slight ring on the bullet but they just work. I don’t worry about it. Lots of brass has a slight edge on the mouths and that will leave an indentation on your bullets. That’s another reason why it’s pretty much useless to try and measure brass thickness with a caliper unless you chamfer the inside and outside of the mouths. A tube mic is the best. A straight edge on the mouths to measure crimp would probably work better than anything else. Edited November 22, 2022 by Farmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Orion1 said: Here are four lead bullets with a lot of crimp 0.376 (left) to 0.378:0.3785 (right). https://ibb.co/wshW46r I like the one, second from the right. I like just the slightest crimp ring visible when you pull a bullet. Edited November 22, 2022 by ysrracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted November 22, 2022 Share Posted November 22, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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