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dwzuspsa

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54 minutes ago, dwzuspsa said:

I would like to see IDPA increase the maximum round count to 24 for stages .  18 rounds maximum is a little lite for stages.

 

I wouldn't mind that at all but I'm betting there will be some pushback here.

 

A less aggressive change to the rules might be allowing one stage of a match to have a 24 round limit.

Or perhaps one 24 round stage for every five stages or something like that.

 

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12 minutes ago, ddc said:

 

I wouldn't mind that at all but I'm betting there will be some pushback here.

 

A less aggressive change to the rules might be allowing one stage of a match to have a 24 round limit.

Or perhaps one 24 round stage for every five stages or something like that.

 

 

I like this idea

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I don't shoot much IDPA anymore but years ago it seemed like quite a few shooters specifically shot it instead of USPSA because of the lower round count. Shooters who bought ammo. And that was long before component and ammo prices of the last couple of years.

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1 hour ago, konkapot said:

Quality of rounds in a stage is better than quantity.

 

Increasing round counts in IDPA is a horrible idea. 

 

I realize IDPA is Fantasy Tactical Camp for some but the "D" used to stand for something. 

The "D"Does stand for something,  defensive,  like everyday when I carry  my Glock 19 with 15 round magazine. It is my defensive carry gun with my 15 round Defensive Magazine. What do you carry everyday concealed a 10 round magazine or revolver?

Edited by usmc1974
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If the "D" still stands for Defensive you should research: "The typical gunfight consists of how many rounds?" 

Hint: It's not 15. 

 

I acknowledge that the Fantasy Camp People like to repel a zombie invasion while standing behind a fault line and wearing a tan vest, and I respect them for their choice. 

 

But, like I said,  Quality of rounds fired at a match is better than Quantity. 

 

Regardless, the very last thing IDPA needs is bigger stages. A high quality 8 round stage is better than a garbage stage with more bullets shot. 

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10 hours ago, MHicks said:

Yes we do want high quality stages. But a lot of shooters don't want to go to the trouble of heading out to a match and shooting 60-70 rounds or less.

yep that is me.  closest match is 2 hours round trip so i def want to get a lot of shooting in.  bigger stages and/or more stages.

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4 minutes ago, davsco said:

yep that is me.  closest match is 2 hours round trip so i def want to get a lot of shooting in.  bigger stages and/or more stages.

 

Could you possibly sign up for 2 divisions and shoot the match twice?

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If the concern is you're not shooting enough, another solution is more stages. It might mean you need to be creative, to fit two stages in every bay but it can be done. In fact it's easier to do under the current restriction to 18 rounds. One club near me (2 hour drive each way) puts on a vary good IDPA match on a 3 bay range. Last week we shot 6 stages, I think the round count was about 100 assuming you didn't take any extra shots. Which in IDPA we know everyone round dumps a little. 

 

One concern is bigger isn't really better. A lame stage design that's 24 rounds is worse than one that's 18. And a good stage can quickly turn crappy if the builder just starts adding more targets to pad the round count. I really can't wait for stages to go from little clusters of 6,6,6 to just 8,8,8 woohoo we're having fun now. Or even better just "hey this round count isn't enough make it 3 per". Instantly it's a 30% improvement in stage design...clearly. 

Edited by Racinready300ex
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i have done that (shoot two divisions).  the prob is most folks that do that are spending a lot of time reloading mags, switching guns etc and not resetting and pasting.  when i did it i brought enough loaded mags for both guns for the whole match.  but not as fun, shooting the same thing twice.  the good news is i usually have a uspsa or 2-3 gun match to shoot.

Edited by davsco
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8 hours ago, SSGGlock said:

I’ve seen happier shooters walk away from a club match. When the stages are short and quick.

 

This is true too. I like hitting up a IDPA match and shooting 5 stages in 3 maybe 4 hours tops. Vs going to a 5 stage uspsa match and getting there at 8 am and leaving a 2 in the afternoon if everything goes smoothly. 

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15 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

If the concern is you're not shooting enough, another solution is more stages. It might mean you need to be creative, to fit two stages in every bay but it can be done. In fact it's easier to do under the current restriction to 18 rounds. One club near me (2 hour drive each way) puts on a vary good IDPA match on a 3 bay range. Last week we shot 6 stages, I think the round count was about 100 assuming you didn't take any extra shots. Which in IDPA we know everyone round dumps a little. 

 

One concern is bigger isn't really better. A lame stage design that's 24 rounds is worse than one that's 18. And a good stage can quickly turn crappy if the builder just starts adding more targets to pad the round count. I really can't wait for stages to go from little clusters of 6,6,6 to just 8,8,8 woohoo we're having fun now. Or even better just "hey this round count isn't enough make it 3 per". Instantly it's a 30% improvement in stage design...clearly. 

 

All definitely good points here.  While I wouldn't mind seeing a 24 or so round stage at a five-stage match, people can definitely go about it in the dumbest ways possible LOL

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Either way (higher or low round count) the stages and targets need to be challenging. I wouldn't  want an extra 10 shots just to hose more targets.  In the summer when it's really hot and turnout is low I will happily accept a simpler set of stages with lower round count and less props to set up and tear down, IDPA or USPSA. Out of there by noon. But I don't want that all of the time.

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4 hours ago, Jim Watson said:

 

You do know that now you can load your Glock with 15 in SSP, don't you?

yes, I do.

  but, what a lot of newer shooters do not realize, (my # AO1668 1996) is that IDPA was started under the Clinton magazine ban, so the factory was shipping all gun with 10 round magazines. The ban is no more so the factory is shipping 15 + mags with all guns. So actually, IDPA needs to really update the rules all the way around. Now they can do this with out becoming USPSA/IPSC.

Edited by usmc1974
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41 minutes ago, usmc1974 said:

yes, I do.

  but, what a lot of newer shooters do not realize, (my # AO1668 1996) is that IDPA was started under the Clinton magazine ban, so the factory was shipping all gun with 10 round magazines. The ban is no more so the factory is shipping 15 + mags with all guns. So actually, IDPA needs to really update the rules all the way around. Now they can do this with out becoming USPSA/IPSC.

 

One of the low level irritations I have with both IDPA and USPSA is the fact that we still have divisions that are defined with respect to the 10 round limits from that ban.

 

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When IDPA increased SSP to 15+1, matches around here immediately started putting in longer stages or downloaded starts to make them reload, too.  I tried that game for a while but did not see any improvement in my placement or my enjoyment and went back to ESP and took every reasonable opportunity for a Cooper Reload.  THAT is fun.    

 

And oh, the weeping and wailing from the poor guys who had recently bought real nice 8 shooters only to find them obsoleted by CCP going from 8 to 10.  

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Here there has never ever been a single 14-16 round stage without some sort of download or mandated reload. It truly takes any of the difference out of having ssp be 15 rounds. Bad match directing.

 

More people won't shoot ssp if on the ground there is zero effective difference in how you shoot the stage with 15 vs 10 rounds. Good on idpa, bad on local stage designers with their "well we can't let ssp have an advantage over anyone else..."

Edited by rowdyb
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On 11/16/2022 at 7:27 PM, rowdyb said:

Here there has never ever been a single 14-16 round stage without some sort of download or mandated reload. It truly takes any of the difference out of having ssp be 15 rounds. Bad match directing.

 

More people won't shoot ssp if on the ground there is zero effective difference in how you shoot the stage with 15 vs 10 rounds. Good on idpa, bad on local stage designers with their "well we can't let ssp have an advantage over anyone else..."

 

One of the things I've found interesting about the 15+1 new limit....is that it actually makes reloads more difficult for SSP shooters, IMO.

 

If we have a stage over 16 rounds, the vast majority of the time the last array has more than one target (often three).  As such, SSP shooters either get a standing reload at the end, have to burn at least two-to-four rounds earlier so they can reload on the move, or are forced into a tac reload at some point in time during the stage. 

 

With 10+1, oddly enough, I normally see a lot more ability to pick a decent reload point while moving (maybe burning one round here or there) which that actually takes less time than the above choices for the 15+1 guys.

 

So yes, the only real advantage for SSP that I see (relative to other divisions) is for stages less than 17 rounds. 

 

And I agree with Rowdy that bad MDs will often try to eliminate that "advantage" even though it shouldn't be a thing, since SSP doesn't compete against other divisions.  But many MDs think that the overall is important (particularly if they aren't shooting SSP themselves) so they make up stuff to screw over one division.

 

Doing anything to screw over a particular division is always bad. 

 

It really is okay to let other people have fun in their own divisions, and it doesn't hurt anyone else.

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1 minute ago, Thomas H said:

 

One of the things I've found interesting about the 15+1 new limit....is that it actually makes reloads more difficult for SSP shooters, IMO.

 

If we have a stage over 16 rounds, the vast majority of the time the last array has more than one target (often three).  As such, SSP shooters either get a standing reload at the end, have to burn at least two-to-four rounds earlier so they can reload on the move, or are forced into a tac reload at some point in time during the stage. 

 

With 10+1, oddly enough, I normally see a lot more ability to pick a decent reload point while moving (maybe burning one round here or there) which that actually takes less time than the above choices for the 15+1 guys.

 

So yes, the only real advantage for SSP that I see (relative to other divisions) is for stages less than 17 rounds. 

 

And I agree with Rowdy that bad MDs will often try to eliminate that "advantage" even though it shouldn't be a thing, since SSP doesn't compete against other divisions.  But many MDs think that the overall is important (particularly if they aren't shooting SSP themselves) so they make up stuff to screw over one division.

 

Doing anything to screw over a particular division is always bad. 

 

It really is okay to let other people have fun in their own divisions, and it doesn't hurt anyone else.

 

I think you're right, now I've only shot one match in SSP that's it. But at that match 4 stages were 16 rounds and 2 where 17. Both 17 round stages I chose to tac load. With a 10 round gun you almost never really need to tac load. I also noticed on the 16 round stages I had to be more careful and couldn't make up a down 1 if I shot one as much as I wanted to.

 

It certainly didn't feel like a advantage and really made the stages kind of tricky to figure out. And the 16 round stages are vary risky. Breaking them down with a 10 round gun seems easy. Maybe that's just because I've been shooting 10 rounds for 10 years. I don't know. 

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