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9mm vs Short Colt. ICORE,


Joe4d

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So make any difference ? 
Current situation,, have no SC brass, but plenty of primers and bullets, in brass plenty of 9mm and 38 spc.
Probably buying an 8 shot either way.. Hold out for a 9mm or is there not gonna be much difference in mooned short colt ?
Assuming SC is legal for ICORE

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What Toolguy said but you can’t mix 9mm headstamps. I’d say that most 929 issues come from people not setting up brass/moons properly.

 

Federal and .040 moons are popular but I’m on the “WIN” 0.037 wagon.

 

No starline 9mm.

 

Starline 38 SC is a-okay.

 

My 9mm brass gets worked more with my .358 bullets but is far cheaper to replace.

 

I shoot a lot and it’s much cheaper to have 10 k 9mm WIN brass than 10k SC.

 

No one lost because they shot 9mm instead of SC, no one one because of it either.

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Since 1997 I have shot 38 Colt Short with 130 gr Montana Gold RN with 4.6 gr of Universal Clay's at 1.100" at 1050 fps (136 PF) I can shoot 1000 rnds before even swabbing the cylinder of my 627 5" bbl.

 

I bought a new 929 when they 1st came out and returned it to S&W to fix both the timing arm and to clean up the chatter marks in the Ti cylinder. Still bad so I sold it & bought a latter version used with lots of smithing work but still had troubles and sold it...

 

The extra 1.5" of barrel length over my 627 5" never was worth all the hassels and down time.

 

My Starline 38 Colt Short has been reloaded 20+ times and never difficult in the reloads even though it is a straight walled case. Ask others but the 627 is not problematic as the 629 is.

 

Reliability is the name of the game and my 627 has 100,000 rnds without ever going back to S&W and still shoots a small group...

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7 minutes ago, Bill Sahlberg said:

Since 1997 I have shot 38 Colt Short with 130 gr Montana Gold RN with 4.6 gr of Universal Clay's at 1.100" at 1050 fps (136 PF) I can shoot 1000 rnds before even swabbing the cylinder of my 627 5" bbl.

 

I bought a new 929 when they 1st came out and returned it to S&W to fix both the timing arm and to clean up the chatter marks in the Ti cylinder. Still bad so I sold it & bought a latter version used with lots of smithing work but still had troubles and sold it...

 

The extra 1.5" of barrel length over my 627 5" never was worth all the hassels and down time.

 

My Starline 38 Colt Short has been reloaded 20+ times and never difficult in the reloads even though it is a straight walled case. Ask others but the 627 is not problematic as the 629 is.

 

Reliability is the name of the game and my 627 has 100,000 rnds without ever going back to S&W and still shoots a small group...


Agreed. The 929 was a good idea that was poorly executed. The 627 is the way to go. 

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yeh I guess so,, didnt know all the 929's had titanium cylinders... Also will probably try the gam eout locally a few times with my 7 shot 686.  befgore sinking alot of money into it. 
I looked at some Icore videos and they looked like track meets and reloading contests..  But the match stages YS posted recently looked pretty good, and several were even 7 shot neutral,, So guess I can  oretty much run what I got and just order some SC brass and practice reloads.. 

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Said this before and will say it again. 627 will shoot 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38 Special and 357 Magnum and the 929 can shoot 9mm. You can always buy a 627 and have it reamed for 9mm and not have to worry about brass. 38 Short Colt is just a straight walled 9mm

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2 hours ago, Joe4d said:
I looked at some Icore videos and they looked like track meets and reloading contests..  But the match stages YS posted recently looked pretty good, and several were even 7 shot neutral,, So guess I can  oretty much run what I got and just order some SC brass and practice reloads.. 

Icore is anything but track meets. Revolver is somewhat of a reloading contest no matter what game you play. The 686+ will play just fine in icore limited or open to get your feet wet. 

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You can shoot 38 short colts, with moon clips for the 627, in a 929.  The brass expands a bit more and I haven't done it enough to know the long term issues.

 

The 929 is by far the most popular at ICORE matches though.

 

Also, next year we can meet up and you're welcome to try any/all of my gear.  I'll even front you the gun/gear/ammo for your first match at Mill Creek ICORE, matches start April 23.

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Neither of my 627s will not run lighter bullets worth a darn, they love  160s and 147s but when I loaded a pile of 130s I had I got tumbling and shotgun patterns, I suspect its because they are short enough to have left the case before they get to the chamber throat. 

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1 hour ago, MikeBurgess said:

Neither of my 627s will not run lighter bullets worth a darn, they love  160s and 147s but when I loaded a pile of 130s I had I got tumbling and shotgun patterns, I suspect its because they are short enough to have left the case before they get to the chamber throat. 

I loaned my 627 iron sight and R8  dot gun to a friend for Steel Challenge.  He loaded some really light/short 105's in my 38 Short Colt brass and was able to get minute of plate on the close stages.  I figured it was bullet yaw before the throat with the bb size bullet and the long jump to the throat..  I had the same experience trying to run 45 acp in a Redhawk and Super Redhawk.  They both had .454 throats, but a even with fat .455+ cast loads, I was never able to get anything beyond a pattern from 45 acp cases.  In 45 colt and 454 they were spot on.    

I use long, .358  160's  in Short Colt and have no issue, but cant get short .358 or .359 125's to shoot well at all.  I've never loaded light bullets in 357 or 38 to see if accuracy shows up.

Jason 

 

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56 minutes ago, Makicjf said:

I loaned my 627 iron sight and R8  dot gun to a friend for Steel Challenge.  He loaded some really light/short 105's in my 38 Short Colt brass and was able to get minute of plate on the close stages.  I figured it was bullet yaw before the throat with the bb size bullet and the long jump to the throat..  I had the same experience trying to run 45 acp in a Redhawk and Super Redhawk.  They both had .454 throats, but a even with fat .455+ cast loads, I was never able to get anything beyond a pattern from 45 acp cases.  In 45 colt and 454 they were spot on.    

I use long, .358  160's  in Short Colt and have no issue, but cant get short .358 or .359 125's to shoot well at all.  I've never loaded light bullets in 357 or 38 to see if accuracy shows up.

Jason 

 

heavy work great,

I just figured if someone is trying to decide between the 9mm and 357 guns knowing the 357 will hate short brass and short bullet combination may help the decision. 

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IIRC I have several cases of 147 gr truncated cone old school moly precision as well as some 356 fmj 124's.. Probably use up that stuff.  
If I stay on same boat scheduIe  I should actually be home in April. So no December match ? Headn home this week.
Looks like Short colt brass is coming available.. Probably go that route and run my 7 shot.
Thanks for gear offer, Havent checked the rules on gear, but I should be ok, have belt , holster and post style moon clip holders,, North Mountains ? 

Oh what kinda die setup are Short colts running ? have heard folks using a combanation of 38spc and 9mm ?  Seems lee at least has SC seat dies.
I might have an extra 38 die and a 38 super set..
Honestly looking at getting a SDB just for 38/357. everythign else I shoot is large primer.


 

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1 hour ago, Joe4d said:

IIRC I have several cases of 147 gr truncated cone old school moly precision as well as some 356 fmj 124's.. Probably use up that stuff.  
If I stay on same boat scheduIe  I should actually be home in April. So no December match ? Headn home this week.
Looks like Short colt brass is coming available.. Probably go that route and run my 7 shot.
Thanks for gear offer, Havent checked the rules on gear, but I should be ok, have belt , holster and post style moon clip holders,, North Mountains ? 

Oh what kinda die setup are Short colts running ? have heard folks using a combanation of 38spc and 9mm ?  Seems lee at least has SC seat dies.
I might have an extra 38 die and a 38 super set..
Honestly looking at getting a SDB just for 38/357. everythign else I shoot is large primer.


 

Icore is relaxed in all divisions on gear- your stuff is good to go.

 

For 38 short colt dies you’ll want a 38 special die to size and 9mm dies for everything else. 

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I used a 38 special sizing die and 9mm everything as stated above. 

 

I don't know if I'd buy a 9mm if I had my time again. 38 short colt was pretty straight forward. 

 

The only downside is 38 special brass around here is mainly winchester non + P for wadcutter ammo seated deep. These don't fit in my moonclips for starline brass. 

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1 hour ago, dansedgli said:

I used a 38 special sizing die and 9mm everything as stated above. 

 

This will work but I’ll just add that I bought a lee short colt sizer/decapper and my press runs smoother. I had messed up my .38 special sizer and needed a backup. If you have a .38 special set, no need to pay for another but if not…

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1 hour ago, MWP said:

Icore is relaxed in all divisions on gear- your stuff is good to go.

 

For 38 short colt dies you’ll want a 38 special die to size and 9mm dies for everything else. 

Yep, that's what I run.

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Never had a problem with 100 and 105's with my 627's or the R-8 using SC brass.  Right now I am using some 120's I cast that have no grease grooves.  They are shooting remarkably well.  I think it is because they have no grease grooves to be uneven and more bearing surface.

 

I kind of like the SC Brass because there are no problems with it clearing the cylinder and they take up much less space in my range bag.  Shot mine ten or more times and primer pockets still tight.  I figure twenty firings per piece ought to work.

 

GG

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I've got both a 929 and a 627.

 

Both barrels slugged at .357. In my 627 I run a .358 160 Bayou Bullet in front of 3gr of Clays (not universal, not international) in a Starline .38 Short Colt case.

 

It took a while to get my 929 to run right. I finally settled on .358 147gr bullet. In a Federal case, with a .035 mom clip.

 

99.99% of the time I shoot my 627.

 

 

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If you get a square deal get it for 38 short colt the seating and crimp die for a 357mag\38 special won't work for 38sc, too short.  Only reason we use 9mm dies are most of us have them or are likely to need them.  Ordering a new square deal you can order a specific die set for free.

Fwiw I had good luck with 124 HP mg 

355 bullets in my 627s.  Don't use them due to cost and the 358 160 coated are just a bit more accurate.

On gear, as long as the trigger guard is covered, the revolver doesn't fall out you're pretty much good.  At least for a 1st match.  For holders just need to retain them, don't want to bean the ro with flying moon clips.

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