617 Extraction Problems

[gargoil66]

Guys:

 

Finally got a 617 and will admit it is a real neat revolver to shoot.

 

It is not so neat to extract the spent cases.  In fact, I have to use a small tap hammer with a nylon end to get the fired brass out.

 

Before getting a bunch of advice, it is easy to load and I have gone through each cylinder with JB. 

 

Inspection of the cylinders shows no tool marks or anything that the eye can see,

 

The problem lies in three consecutive cylinders, the others are easy to extract.  The first one you can not extract the case without a tap hammer.  The second one you can get out by hand but it is tough to do.  The third one you can get out with a little force.  The other seven cylinders work fine.

 

When inserting spent cases into these cylinders, they go in with some effort and kind of snap into place.

 

OK -- there you got it.  Before I do anything else I will solicit your recommendations.

 

GG

[625]

I would measure the cylinder holes.  I take it that this is a new gun and always had this problem.  

[625]

I am sure you have tried other makes of ammo.  And they all fail in the same holes. 

[Toolguy]

The 2 main choices are - There are dings on the chamber mouth from dry firing OR some of the chambers are undersized and need to be reamed to normal size.

[gargoil66]

TG / 625:

 

It is brand new and I see no markings indicating damage to the chamber mouth.

 

One reason I got it is because people have given me their .22 ammo over the years and I have a large amount of different brands and types.

 

It is easy to load with any brand I have used.  Same degree of difficulty ejecting the spent cases with any brand of ammo.

 

Will measure the chambers and see what is going on.  Not adverse to reaming them out but would rather a professional do it.  Easy enough to remove the cylinder and send it to Warren.  

 

Thankyou for your input.  

 

GG

[ysrracer]

I've found mine to be ammo brand sensitive.

[MWP]

2 hours ago, ysrracer said:

I've found mine to be ammo brand sensitive.

Same here.

[AzShooter]

Mine works best with Federal BYOB.  I can shoot the lightest DA with it and all cases drop with no troubles.  I also like Remington Bucket Of Bullets for the same reason.

 

With CCI Mini Mags I have to clean the cylinders about every stage at a Steel Challenge Match.  

[gargoil66]

23 hours ago, ysrracer said:

I've found mine to be ammo brand sensitive.

YRR:

 

So far it has been some thirty or forty year old PMC Zapper, Some Remington Target in the plastic 100 round container.  I think the price tag was like $5.00.  Have shot Federal Target, Federal HV Target, Wolf Match Extra, CCI Blazer, and Aguila.  All of them load easily,  all of them go off, one chamber is causing me to use a little tap hammer to eject the cases.  I will measure them tomorrow.  

 

Can't tell you how "upset" I am with Smith and Wesson. If they loaded ten shots and shot them out of that revolver before shipping it, they would have found the problem.  Same with the trigger pull on my TRR-8 that got progressively worse as you cycled through the cylinder until the last pull was probably fifteen or so pounds.   NFE.

 

GG

[MWP]

2 hours ago, gargoil66 said:

YRR:

 

So far it has been some thirty or forty year old PMC Zapper, Some Remington Target in the plastic 100 round container.  I think the price tag was like $5.00.  Have shot Federal Target, Federal HV Target, Wolf Match Extra, CCI Blazer, and Aguila.  All of them load easily,  all of them go off, one chamber is causing me to use a little tap hammer to eject the cases.  I will measure them tomorrow.  

 

Can't tell you how "upset" I am with Smith and Wesson. If they loaded ten shots and shot them out of that revolver before shipping it, they would have found the problem.  Same with the trigger pull on my TRR-8 that got progressively worse as you cycled through the cylinder until the last pull was probably fifteen or so pounds.   NFE.

 

GG

Gene, 

Do you want me to bring some 617s this Saturday to the match? I’m planning to shoot mine, since it will be cold I wasn’t planning on shooting from the holster. I’ll bring another couple 617s and we will compare? 

[gargoil66]

14 hours ago, MWP said:

Gene, 

Do you want me to bring some 617s this Saturday to the match? I’m planning to shoot mine, since it will be cold I wasn’t planning on shooting from the holster. I’ll bring another couple 617s and we will compare? 

MP:

 

That will be great.  I will probably end up marking the very tight chamber and loading a dummy in it for the match so I can eject the brass into a container on the line without violating a safety rule.   Will also be shooting my 627.

 

Now to keep my fingers crossed that Highway 2 will remain open.

 

Cold?  It will be sunny and in the upper 30's to mid 40's.  Downright balmy.  

 

GG

 

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by gargoil66

[357454]

My friends and I have three newer 617s,  each of them have extraction issues regardless of the ammo brand. After researching the issue on this forum I ordered a finish reamer from Brownells, using my gun for a test i reamed each chamber then shot it testing for accuracy and extraction, the accuracy seemed to improve slightly and the extraction issues are gone. After the initial testing I changed out my firing pin which measured .503 and installed a factory .493. The two changes allowed me to reduce my double action pull from 8 3/4 pounds to 7 1/3 pounds with 100% ignition using either Remingtom Golden Bullets or CCI Coated. I have now reamed each of the three guns with positive results . 

[Toolguy]

This same story has been repeated over and over for years. The reamer won't cut any bigger than SAMMI specs. If the chambers are already the right size, no material will be removed. If they are undersize, it will only cut to correct size.

[gargoil66]

On 11/17/2022 at 6:38 AM, 357454 said:

My friends and I have three newer 617s,  each of them have extraction issues regardless of the ammo brand. After researching the issue on this forum I ordered a finish reamer from Brownells, using my gun for a test i reamed each chamber then shot it testing for accuracy and extraction, the accuracy seemed to improve slightly and the extraction issues are gone. After the initial testing I changed out my firing pin which measured .503 and installed a factory .493. The two changes allowed me to reduce my double action pull from 8 3/4 pounds to 7 1/3 pounds with 100% ignition using either Remingtom Golden Bullets or CCI Coated. I have now reamed each of the three guns with positive results . 

 

Yes, I guess we are keeping the reamer maker in business.  Should have my reamer this week and yes, I believe the cylinder has one really undersized chamber, two undersized chambers, and two marginal chambers.

 

Have finished reamed some rifle barrels that were short throated and it is a tedious process but the only solution.  Scared that if I sent it back to Smith, they would throw a new cylinder in it and send it back without test firing and leave me with more problems.

 

And, like Warren said, the reamer is cut to SAAMI specs so it would be hard for even me to screw it up.

 

Am confident I can 'get er done' but not real happy about it.

 

GG

[gargoil66]

Got the reamer and finish reamed all ten chambers.

 

I was gobsmacked at the amount of metal I had to remove from all of them so the revolver would eject all spent cases easily.  One chamber was so tight the reamer started out only about 2/10th of an inch.   Obviously the tightest one.

 

It is like Smith and Wesson drilled out the chambers and left it at that.  Except that based on reaming all of them. each chamber seemed to be of a different diameter than the others. 

 

Anyway, it is smooth as silk right now and tomorrow I may JB each chamber to polish out any tool marks I may have left.

 

Smith and Wesson ought to be ashamed at this negligent lack of quality control.

 

GG

 

 

[ysrracer]

3 hours ago, gargoil66 said:

I may JB each chamber to polish out any tool marks I may have left.

 

JB ?

 

.

Edited November 26, 2022 by ysrracer

[MWP]

3 hours ago, ysrracer said:

 

JB ?

 

.

JB bore paste. Lapping compound. 

[ysrracer]

18 minutes ago, MWP said:

JB bore paste. Lapping compound. 

 

Thanks

[pskys2]

7 hours ago, MWP said:

JB bore paste. Lapping compound. 

Several degree's of bore lapping compound, not to be confused with regular lapping compound.  JB is a finer grit and rifle competitors use it.

[gargoil66]

33 minutes ago, pskys2 said:

Several degree's of bore lapping compound, not to be confused with regular lapping compound.  JB is a finer grit and rifle competitors use it.

 

PK:

 

Roger.  Really is more a bore polish than a lapping compound.  

 

Have no idea how popular it is these days but BITD when I was shooting HP, the bench rest guys used it a lot and HP guys used it after cleaning and removing any copper fowling.

 

I used it in my 625 cylinder to smooth things out and it worked fine. 

 

Really went to town with it on the 617 and it was not aggressive enough to do anything but make a mess.  Was wishful thinking.  I knew the first time I had to hammer out the spent brass that the problems with the 617 chambers were way beyond JB and needed reaming.

 

Still infuriated that I had to drop another C note and do Smith and Wesson's job for them. 

 

GG

 

 

[MWP]

It’s a good tool to have available to anyone working in a revolver. Not sure it’s needed often, especially in Gene’s situation here. 

[gargoil66]

16 hours ago, MWP said:

It’s a good tool to have available to anyone working in a revolver. Not sure it’s needed often, especially in Gene’s situation here. 

 

100% true.  Takes me about five or so years to go through a tub of it.  

 

One thing that guys may consider is its use if they think their revolver is just not quite right anymore.  Slight drop in accuracy that you can't seem to bring back up.

 

Clean it and JB the chambers and barrel.  Won't hurt anything and may bring some life back to the blaster. 

 

Nope -- don't think any firearm needs to be spotless and yes, I do believe they shoot better fowled.  My revolvers seem to get sluggish after shooting a couple hundred rounds out of them so I clean them.  JB?  Maybe once every couple of months.  

 

GG

 

 

 

[357454]

My revo friends and I shot three model 617s at our local steel challenge, extraction was flawless after teaming each chamber. I used an online driver with plenty of cutting fluid and cleaned the cutter at least three times for each cylinder. The chamber area looked like they had been polished when I was finished. The key is to go slow and not force the reamer, if it starts to tighten up, stop, clean and re-apply the cutting oil.

[Toolguy]

That is the way to do it, folks. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^