Smith and Wesson skipping cylinders

[DesertTortoise]

I am new to revolvers. I have a smith and wesson m1917 in .45 ACP made in 1918. In dry fire, I noticed that when the trigger is pulled quickly in double action, the cylinder will skip chambers (for example making a full rotation in 4 trigger pulls instead of 6).

 

This does not happen in single action or if the trigger is pulled slowly in double action.

 

I have read that this is caused by the cylinder stop not engaging on the notches. I removed the side plate and saw that there is no debris or old grease obstructing the cylinder stop and that the spring appears to be intact. I did not fully disassemble the revolver. 

 

Any recommendations on how to troubleshoot? 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by DesertTortoise

[DesertTortoise]

[pskys2]

I'd try a new Cylinder Stop Spring, they will wear out.

[Toolguy]

That is often caused by burrs that get raised on the edges of the cylinder notches. When the cylinder is cycled quickly, the burr will make the cylinder stop bounce down just long enough for the notch to pass by.

 

You want to peen that material back down where it came from, not file it off. For the flat side, you can use a flat ended punch and hammer to carefully push the burr back down. For the ramp side, you can use the side of a 5/16 steel rod to tap the burr down. That will also tighten up the fit of the cylinder stop in the notch. This is normal maintenance on a revolver that has been shot a lot.

[DesertTortoise]

Thanks guys. I'll work on the cylinder and see how it goes from there.

 

 

[Tampa-XD45]

On 11/5/2022 at 7:38 PM, Toolguy said:

That is often caused by burrs that get raised on the edges of the cylinder notches. When the cylinder is cycled quickly, the burr will make the cylinder stop bounce down just long enough for the notch to pass by.

 

You want to peen that material back down where it came from, not file it off. For the flat side, you can use a flat ended punch and hammer to carefully push the burr back down. For the ramp side, you can use the side of a 5/16 steel rod to tap the burr down. That will also tighten up the fit of the cylinder stop in the notch. This is normal maintenance on a revolver that has been shot a lot.

What's wrong with using a file?  I've never had to do it but watched a guy file his 625 cylinder at an ICORE match.

 

[Fishbreath]

The little burr is metal pushed out of the notch by the cylinder hitting the stop. If you file it away, you're making the notch wider, and maybe causing timing issues down the line. If you hammer it back into place, you're keeping the notch dimensions the same.

 

(At least, that'd be my guess. I'm not much of a gunsmith.)

[mchapman]

6 minutes ago, Fishbreath said:

The little burr is metal pushed out of the notch by the cylinder hitting the stop. If you file it away, you're making the notch wider, and maybe causing timing issues down the line. If you hammer it back into place, you're keeping the notch dimensions the same.

 

(At least, that'd be my guess. I'm not much of a gunsmith.)

Winner Winner chicken dinner.

[Toolguy]

Yep - you can file it off, but you want that material there to bring it back (close) to original dimensions.

[pskys2]

Don't use a file, use a stone.  Best to use that stone to clean it up & smooth up the points after peening it back.  But I'm lazy and rarely peen it down.  The 625 and M29 seem to be the one's I have to affected.  My  627's, knock on wood, don't seem to have much problems.

And the M29 doesn't seem to have changed timing, while my 625 has had many timing issues for some reason.  I finally got it settled down but was a chore and not related to the notches.

My reason for questioning the spring was the age of the revolver!  Hard to say how much use, or abuse, that old war horse has seen.

[Farmer]

On 11/8/2022 at 8:16 AM, pskys2 said:

Don't use a file, use a stone.  Best to use that stone to clean it up & smooth up the points after peening it back.  But I'm lazy and rarely peen it down.  The 625 and M29 seem to be the one's I have to affected.  My  627's, knock on wood, don't seem to have much problems.

And the M29 doesn't seem to have changed timing, while my 625 has had many timing issues for some reason.  I finally got it settled down but was a chore and not related to the notches.

My reason for questioning the spring was the age of the revolver!  Hard to say how much use, or abuse, that old war horse has seen.

Also make sure the cylinder stop moves freely and there’s no burrs on the window on the frame or the stop lever. If that window gets worn it can let the stop lean excessively and make it not catch also. I’m also betting on the spring. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Farmer

[625]

If you decide to change the spring; Wolf makes two types, standard and extra strong. 

[pskys2]

8 minutes ago, 625 said:

If you decide to change the spring; Wolf makes two types, standard and extra strong. 

Did not know that, I'd go with the extra strong.  Might have to get some for my stash.

[DesertTortoise]

Problem fixed! No longer skipping chambers

Lightly peening the cylinder stops didnt resolve the issue so I installed a new standard power Wolff spring.

 

Old (factory m1917) spring pictured on top and new (Wolff standard power) below. With the gun apart, I can definitely feel the new spring is stronger, clicking the stop into the notches.

 

Thanks for the help!

[ysrracer]

When metal is peened you generally don't want to remove it. You want it back where it started.

[Carmoney]

Back when I was Carmonizing revolvers, I noticed a strong connection between the peening/skipping problem, and the heavy-handed shooters who slap their cylinders closed with lots of gusto.  The peening problem is usually only an issue with the stainless guns--very rare with the blue models. 

 

Glad to see the OP got his gun fixed--I suspected the hundred-year-old cylinder stop spring might be culprit.