Jp5 vs Mpx Pcc?

[adrone]

I wanted to see if any of you guys have experience with both the Sig mpx pcc and the new Jp5.

Ive had both a Gmr15 and an Mpx Pcc previously. Compared to the Gmr the Mpx was lighter recoiling and faster than the GMR for me.  For other reasons Id rather not have another Mpx but Im looking at the new Jp5. 
How does the Jp5 recoil and rise compared to Mpx? 
Also it looks like the jp5 competition version has a different handguard and a vertical upwards pointed steel comp as opposed to the steel challenge version with the magpul guard and a titanium 3 port on each side horizontal comp.
 For Uspsa which would you prefer or suggest? 

[Boomstick303]

I have not shot the MPX.  With that said a good friend was an MPX fan boy, but after running 10,000 through the thing it just is not reliable enough for him.  He is over it.  He was able to barrow a JP5 to finish up a match where his MPX went down and he said he felt it was just as good as his MPX.  He felt dot movement was similar, and he also thought recoil was similar.  I am not sure I believe that about the recoil in that there is more moving mass in the JP5 than in the MPX, but thats coming from a guy who ran an MPX for two seasons.  He intends to sell his MPX and buy a JP5.

 

I would caution that you do need to tune the ammo to your JP5 or tune you JP5 to your ammo.  This is done by changing your lock pieces.  I am in the process of tuning ammo to my JP5.  

 

There is a JP5 thread where people share what the have done to tune the JP5.  Maybe check it out.  

[mrvip27]

JP5 thread has a lot of good info

[Bdh821]

I'll be sure to add my thoughts of the JP5 once I get ahold of one.  the JP5 just won PCC Nats...  and a colt mag lower brekke custom upper took 2nd

[Darqusoull13]

On 10/21/2022 at 2:59 PM, adrone said:

I wanted to see if any of you guys have experience with both the Sig mpx pcc and the new Jp5.

Ive had both a Gmr15 and an Mpx Pcc previously. Compared to the Gmr the Mpx was lighter recoiling and faster than the GMR for me.  For other reasons Id rather not have another Mpx but Im looking at the new Jp5. 
How does the Jp5 recoil and rise compared to Mpx? 
Also it looks like the jp5 competition version has a different handguard and a vertical upwards pointed steel comp as opposed to the steel challenge version with the magpul guard and a titanium 3 port on each side horizontal comp.
 For Uspsa which would you prefer or suggest? 

There is no comparison. The JP-5 wins hands down for reliability. 

Recoil the JP can be tuned extremely easily to be as soft as you like. One of the CBP guys on our squad, John, was running duty ammo that looked like Steel Challenge loads with a 60 degree lock piece. You will be extremely happy with any of the JP-5's. 

I have personally run down to 100 PF and up well over 150 PF without issues. 

If it's me picking, I'd go with the MLOK hand guard and 3 port compensator but that's getting down into the weeds and have more to do with preference for hand size and aesthetics. 

Let me know if you have other specific questions on the -5's. 

[mellino19]

On 10/24/2022 at 10:48 AM, Bdh821 said:

I'll be sure to add my thoughts of the JP5 once I get ahold of one.  the JP5 just won PCC Nats...  and a colt mag lower brekke custom upper took 2nd

 

Well we shot one a few weeks ago

[Blackstone45]

On 10/24/2022 at 7:39 PM, Darqusoull13 said:

There is no comparison. The JP-5 wins hands down for reliability. 

Recoil the JP can be tuned extremely easily to be as soft as you like. One of the CBP guys on our squad, John, was running duty ammo that looked like Steel Challenge loads with a 60 degree lock piece. You will be extremely happy with any of the JP-5's. 

I have personally run down to 100 PF and up well over 150 PF without issues. 

If it's me picking, I'd go with the MLOK hand guard and 3 port compensator but that's getting down into the weeds and have more to do with preference for hand size and aesthetics. 

Let me know if you have other specific questions on the -5's. 

I've heard that the Vertical port comp might actually drive the muzzle too far down. Do you know anything about this? I would be shooting 130 PF 124gr bullets loaded with VV N320

[Darqusoull13]

47 minutes ago, Blackstone45 said:

I've heard that the Vertical port comp might actually drive the muzzle too far down. Do you know anything about this? I would be shooting 130 PF 124gr bullets loaded with VV N320

There's a bunch of hearsay on the internet. 

I can tell you having shot 124's loaded with N320 to 130ish power factor, I did not find the muzzle to be driven down "too far" with the 80 degree lock piece. 

I can't imagine how much powder you'd need to actually drive the muzzle down "too far" in a PCC. Having loaded an Open pistol with 10+ grains of 3N38 and 124 gr bullets, the only "too far" down dip I've seen is when new shooters jerk the gun down thinking it will recoil like a production gun. In those situations, telling them to relax and not jerk the crap out of it resolved the downward movement issue. 

[Ac02117]

On 11/18/2022 at 12:37 PM, Darqusoull13 said:

There's a bunch of hearsay on the internet. 

I can tell you having shot 124's loaded with N320 to 130ish power factor, I did not find the muzzle to be driven down "too far" with the 80 degree lock piece. 

I can't imagine how much powder you'd need to actually drive the muzzle down "too far" in a PCC. Having loaded an Open pistol with 10+ grains of 3N38 and 124 gr bullets, the only "too far" down dip I've seen is when new shooters jerk the gun down thinking it will recoil like a production gun. In those situations, telling them to relax and not jerk the crap out of it resolved the downward movement issue. 

CK have you tried using a 70 degree piece yet with your minor loads? I have found better feel with the 70 degree piece with loads down near 115PF for SC and up to around 135PF for USPSA over the 80 degree. 

[Nolan]

I thought the lower the power factor the higher the number locking pieces??  

 

Nolan

[Darqusoull13]

17 hours ago, Ac02117 said:

CK have you tried using a 70 degree piece yet with your minor loads? I have found better feel with the 70 degree piece with loads down near 115PF for SC and up to around 135PF for USPSA over the 80 degree. 

Yes, but I settled on 80 degree. I would not run a 70 degree with 115 PF loads. 

[Ac02117]

1 hour ago, Darqusoull13 said:

Yes, but I settled on 80 degree. I would not run a 70 degree with 115 PF loads. 

Is there a reason you'd not run a 70 for sub minor loads other than reliability? 

[Stefan77]

I am still testing out various types of ammo when I can.  I posted this in the JP5 thread.  I still have to test my Eley sample pack that arrived this week.

Addition 80* Cam worked well with my 150grn Syntechs but I honestly like the feel of the 60* with 115's better.

 

60*:

115grn Blazer Brass (BB) cycled and bolt would hold open (I had a couple of times that it didn't hold the bolt open).

Addition 115 grn Federal I only tried t for a few rounds and it didn't hold the bolt open but it could be a magazine or have been a little dirty?

130grn Syntech, bolt cycled but would not hold open.

150grn syntech, bolt would not cycle

 

70*:

130grn Syntech I noticed a little more recoil, bolt cycled and held open

150grn Syntech, bolt cycled and it held open but I can't remember if it was consistent.

 

As far as what felt good to me?

 The 115grn BB felt really nice.  Cycled fast and felt light (what I mean by light is that it wasn't a heavy'sh push)

The 130grn Syntech was pretty good, it shot well.  I was happy with it but I don't like the bolt not holding open.

150grn Syntech felt a little sluggish when shooting it.

 

These are just my "feels" so not a really objective thing.  

 

I just ordered the Eley Trial pack and will test that out.  I ordered a case of Federal 115grn FMJ to try which shoot at 1180FPS (from a pistol) vs the BB 115grn which shoots at 1145fps (from a pistol).  The 130grn Syntechs are listed at 1140 FPS from a PCC with a 16" barrel so I suspect a slower velocity from the JP5 being it is not a true 16" barrel with a pinned and welded muzzle break.  

Thoughts?

 

I'll continue to post in the JP5 thread and update there as I go.

[dmshozer1]

27 minutes ago, Stefan77 said:

I am still testing out various types of ammo when I can.  I posted this in the JP5 thread.  I still have to test my Eley sample pack that arrived this week.

Addition 80* Cam worked well with my 150grn Syntechs but I honestly like the feel of the 60* with 115's better.

 

60*:

115grn Blazer Brass (BB) cycled and bolt would hold open (I had a couple of times that it didn't hold the bolt open).

Addition 115 grn Federal I only tried t for a few rounds and it didn't hold the bolt open but it could be a magazine or have been a little dirty?

130grn Syntech, bolt cycled but would not hold open.

150grn syntech, bolt would not cycle

 

70*:

130grn Syntech I noticed a little more recoil, bolt cycled and held open

150grn Syntech, bolt cycled and it held open but I can't remember if it was consistent.

 

As far as what felt good to me?

 The 115grn BB felt really nice.  Cycled fast and felt light (what I mean by light is that it wasn't a heavy'sh push)

The 130grn Syntech was pretty good, it shot well.  I was happy with it but I don't like the bolt not holding open.

150grn Syntech felt a little sluggish when shooting it.

 

These are just my "feels" so not a really objective thing.  

 

I just ordered the Eley Trial pack and will test that out.  I ordered a case of Federal 115grn FMJ to try which shoot at 1180FPS (from a pistol) vs the BB 115grn which shoots at 1145fps (from a pistol).  The 130grn Syntechs are listed at 1140 FPS from a PCC with a 16" barrel so I suspect a slower velocity from the JP5 being it is not a true 16" barrel with a pinned and welded muzzle break.  

Thoughts?

 

I'll continue to post in the JP5 thread and update there as I go.

What were you shooting before you bought this $4,000, not including an optic, wait for two years gun that was advertised to

kick ass right out of the box.

Sorry guy. I cannot see $4,000 when you can build a very reliable PCC for $1,500 set up the way you want it.

I can double tap into an A zone up to 25 yd. under match conditions. I never win because I do not move well.

Movement, stage planing, a reliable gun and set up is what wins matches.

[Jschreiber]

My MPX runs like a dream with sub sonics, but you gotta keep it oiled and the piston relatively clean.

[inertia]

If you put the same level of effort into load development and tuning for an mpx these guys are for the jp they can be very reliable. This requires some understanding why different systems, roller, blowback, gas piston, like different things.

[JM_]

On 12/9/2022 at 4:51 PM, dmshozer1 said:

What were you shooting before you bought this $4,000, not including an optic, wait for two years gun that was advertised to

kick ass right out of the box.

Sorry guy. I cannot see $4,000 when you can build a very reliable PCC for $1,500 set up the way you want it.

I can double tap into an A zone up to 25 yd. under match conditions. I never win because I do not move well.

Movement, stage planing, a reliable gun and set up is what wins matches.

To be fair it does kick ass out of the box compared to nearly all PCC's out of the box. Can you spend countless hours and money tuning a regular blow back gun to run similar to a JP-5? Maybe. With the JP-5 all you need to do it change locking lugs dependent on ammo and you've got an incredibly flat and soft shooting gun. The cost of the gun is because JP has spent a ton of money in R&D to make a completely unique platform that is backed by a well known company. They're known for their insane quality and reliability, and the price does show that.

[Fasthenk65]

I had 2 MPX units, both problems with reliability, I sold them. I have 3 friends with an MPX, 2 sold them, 1 keeps on trying to make it work (all the time),

 

I shoot a JP15GMR now, as do my mentioned friends. Zero problems. Yes, some load development, we settled on wave spring, weight, blitz 5007 and 115's with VV N320. Done.

Since I am lazy about to buy a JP5 in order to shoot factory ammo without changing to many things. I love JP!

[dmshozer1]

3 hours ago, JM_ said:

To be fair it does kick ass out of the box compared to nearly all PCC's out of the box. Can you spend countless hours and money tuning a regular blow back gun to run similar to a JP-5? Maybe. With the JP-5 all you need to do it change locking lugs dependent on ammo and you've got an incredibly flat and soft shooting gun. The cost of the gun is because JP has spent a ton of money in R&D to make a completely unique platform that is backed by a well known company. They're known for their insane quality and reliability, and the price does show that.

Agree that JP makes good stuff,

But a bare 4,000 rifle is ridicules when you can buy a store bought very reliable and competitive

PCC for $2,500. I think the $2,500 price is also ridicules.

As simple as they are I realize that many do not have the knowledge to build one.

But if you can build one the knowledge how to do it is pretty standard and available.

A very basic "10 barrel or 5" shrouded one, Orange 308 buffer spring, Blitz buffer,

 A good cheek weld stock, Hyper Fire or CMC trigger, handguard and pistol grip of choice.

Any 9mm upper and lower, Red dot of choice, good Glock mags, factory or good reloads to give

about 125 to 135 Power factor. $1,500 to $1,800 if you invest in a quality red dot.

Now you have a very reliable PCC that if you do your part will double tap A's all day long.

Spend the extra money on primers if you can  find them.

Just my opinion.

 

[jerseyglock]

27 minutes ago, dmshozer1 said:

Agree that JP makes good stuff,

But a bare 4,000 rifle is ridicules when you can buy a store bought very reliable and competitive

PCC for $2,500. I think the $2,500 price is also ridicules.

As simple as they are I realize that many do not have the knowledge to build one.

But if you can build one the knowledge how to do it is pretty standard and available.

A very basic "10 barrel or 5" shrouded one, Orange 308 buffer spring, Blitz buffer,

 A good cheek weld stock, Hyper Fire or CMC trigger, handguard and pistol grip of choice.

Any 9mm upper and lower, Red dot of choice, good Glock mags, factory or good reloads to give

about 125 to 135 Power factor. $1,500 to $1,800 if you invest in a quality red dot.

Now you have a very reliable PCC that if you do your part will double tap A's all day long.

Spend the extra money on primers if you can  find them.

Just my opinion.

 

 

Forget primers, bulk 9mm 115gr is below $300 and some offered free shipping.

[Pmatte1]

Run an MPX id agree with the if it’s not consistently oiled/cleaned will quickly give you issues. 

[Kjrobbins24]

Every single MPX I have ever seen used in matches has some sort of malfunction, nearly religiously. It’s finicky with some ammo, and in my opinion, there is far too much daily/constant maintenance required to keep it running.

[Bdh821]

On 12/22/2022 at 1:03 PM, Kjrobbins24 said:

Every single MPX I have ever seen used in matches has some sort of malfunction, nearly religiously. It’s finicky with some ammo, and in my opinion, there is far too much daily/constant maintenance required to keep it running.

All 3 of mine run flawless.  You're welcome to try one at a local match 

[ard212]

The people that have problems with their MPX do know you have to clean them, right ?

[PaleoMan]

On 12/28/2022 at 2:12 PM, Bdh821 said:

All 3 of mine run flawless.  You're welcome to try one at a local match 

I'm thinking of getting into PCCs and have been looking for light weight (for my weak upper body) and limited recoil (as I'm looking to use for Steel Challenge and later IDPA/USPSA use as well). I've been looking closely at the JP-5 and MPX and hence this thread is of much interest. I've been wondering if I should buy-once/cry-once and get a JP5, or consider the savings and go with a MPX.

 

I've read and heard from other shooters about the MPXs needed a lot of TLC with keeping it clean, and I was wondering whether it is truly something that requires an inordinate amount of care, or if it is a matter of folks using extended periods between cleanings. Likewise, I'm wondering if there is ammunition that was problematic for the MPX.

 

Bdh821, on a round count basis, roughly, how frequently do you clean/lube your well runnign MPXs? I'd love to hear from other MPX users on this as well. For me, I usually clean my guns, right after each match, so 200-300 rounds in-between cleanings (yeah, I guess I'm anal). With an MPX, are issues occurring at those levels, or only when folks are waiting 1k, 5k, or more rounds between cleanings?

 

Also, did you have any concerns with ammunition selection, and the MPX being finicky with ammo?  I reload, and use 125 gn coated bullets, at around 130 PF for my pistols. I was wondering if problems are seen with coated vs plated, and with different PFs.

 

To be fair, I'm interested in hearing from JP-5 owners as well, if they've seen issues with PF, bullet composition, and cleaning as well.

 

As someone looking to start with PCCs, it's tough outlaying almost twice the price, but on the other hand, I don't want to get something that I'll end up having to replace due to it driving me nuts, nor do I want to keep "upgrading", if I can do a reasonable selection in the first place.

 

I'm hoping to do more extensive shooting of a MPX that my friend has (though he has it highly modified), and I'm trying to find other club members that have a JP-5, so I could give it a try. But, it is useful to hear about the maintenance side of things from the community.