Issue with Phoenix Trinity Honcho build

[engineerjet]

I have recently found myself in a difficult situation regarding my Honcho order with Phoenix Trinity. I have no intention of blaming or mis-characterizing so I will do my best to explain the situation objectively.

 

I ordered a Honcho last year during their black friday sale.

6/8/2022 I get an email that my order is scheduled for coating

6/22/2022 my order is coated will be returning to PT with a release date of 6/30/2022

7/1/2022 PT received my Honcho and there is a problem with the coating as it did not pass their quality check so it would be returning to coating

7/28/2022 PT receives my re-coated Honcho and there is still a problem because the silver did not turn out quite right and will be returning to be re-coated

9/6/2022 PT receives my Honcho and they will begin the quality check and give me an update as soon as possible.

Afterwards I speak to PT and they inform me the re-coat is still not acceptable (small spots of surface rust that the coater believes is the result of something in the stripping process) and they will speak to the coater about how to proceed going forward. (at this point my Honcho has gone through a total of THREE coatings)

9/21/2022 PT spoke with the quality manager at the coating company and they came to the conclusion it is best not to strip and re-coat further with the silver PVD.

 

So now with my order being coated three times, PT gave me two options.

1) Take the gun as is (with the surface rust) and if it gets worse they will recoat with black DLC at their cost. (I don't know who would accept a $6000 gun as is with surface rust)

2) Recoat in black DLC (as this is a different coating process and has higher success rate) and refund me the difference of the silver PVD coating option.

 

PT informs me that there is no other recourse as the coater is only liable for the cost of the service, so in theory they can ruin a $6000 gun and only be on the hook for the coating cost of a few hundred dollars.

 

Now, my issue is, and I have expressed multiple times to them. I am only getting one Honcho, so I prefer it to be the color I want. Would I be happy with a black DLC gun? Probably, but that's not the point. This will be the single biggest purchase I have ever made in my firearms hobby to date, and now I'm being told my order will be black whether I like it or not. Granted in the beginning I chose black but went back and forth until I decided on Silver before work on my gun even started. But the silver grew on me and i finalized my order before it would be an inconvenience (the irony).

 

Are there any other options?

[Rnlinebacker]

Option 2 or a full refund altogether and buy something worth that much money. Don't complicate this lol

[Furrly]

I would cancel the order if you could, this has been an ongoing issue with PT for quite some time now! and yet they do not find a different coater

[Sarge]

[36873687]

No way id accept that rust bucket

[Bakerjd]

I sincerely hope you put it on a credit card. If you didn't..... basicly you have no recourse at all. If you did you can cancel payment through credit card company and they will take their money back. Take it off your bill and then your end is all done. The fight for the money will be between PT and the CC. The CC will win. Either way you dont have to worry. 

 

I went down this road with a $4,000 truck parts purchase that I ended up loosing about $2,000 on because I used a debit card. With a debit card it's your money and the bank can't do anything to get it back. 

[jbauman915]

I have had some major issues of late with a certain finisher dinging frames or slides after they'd been finished and then sending it to me like that!  Huge dings through the finish to the steel.  

 

That being said, it was cleaned up, re-finished and good to go.  A second and third time though being stripped down and redone?!  Yeah, I would never send that to a customer.  It's tolerances would be way off by that point.  

[Balakay]

7 hours ago, Bakerjd said:

I sincerely hope you put it on a credit card. If you didn't..... basicly you have no recourse at all. If you did you can cancel payment through credit card company and they will take their money back. Take it off your bill and then your end is all done. The fight for the money will be between PT and the CC. The CC will win. Either way you dont have to worry. 

 

I went down this road with a $4,000 truck parts purchase that I ended up loosing about $2,000 on because I used a debit card. With a debit card it's your money and the bank can't do anything to get it back. 

Agree 100%.  Do a charge back with your CC company and have no regrets. The fact that PT hasn't offered you a full refund speaks volumes.  

[boatdoc173]

get a refund.  do NOT accept the gun unless it is in perfect condition as ordered

 

 for that price they should NOT be approaching you, they should have  built it right coatings included PERIOD

[Zachjet]

No way I would take delivery of that. 
I don’t care what they say

I’d be firm on that  

[barry]

How does rust form on the surface of a non metallic Finnish is my question

[engineerjet]

Aside from it not being the color I want. How can I be sure the tolerances after 3 coatings will be within the same spec as a brand new once coated build?

[JM_]

52 minutes ago, engineerjet said:

Aside from it not being the color I want. How can I be sure the tolerances after 3 coatings will be within the same spec as a brand new once coated build?

If they had good customer service they would already be in the process of fitting a new slide and send it out for finishing at a new place. That slide is a good as junk to me and they should know better. Definitely won't ever order from them if this is how they handle their issues.

[yigal]

My $1000 car has less rust. 

[Rich406]

4 hours ago, Balakay said:

Agree 100%.  Do a charge back with your CC company and have no regrets. The fact that PT hasn't offered you a full refund speaks volumes.  

If he ordered in Nov of last year, he’s way past the time where he could have disputed it with his CC company. Most Cc companies are 90 days max, some are as little as 30 days. 
 

He’s essentially at the mercy of PT.

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, Rich406 said:

 

He’s essentially at the mercy of PT.

And that is a terrible place to be.

[engineerjet]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

And that is a terrible place to be.

I may yet have recourse. I requested a new gun be made or refund. Lets see what happens

[HI5-O]

Good luck. I’m still waiting for mine in black DLC 

[Bakerjd]

5 hours ago, Rich406 said:

If he ordered in Nov of last year, he’s way past the time where he could have disputed it with his CC company. Most Cc companies are 90 days max, some are as little as 30 days. 
 

He’s essentially at the mercy of PT.

You may want to check the laws on that. I can 100% guarantee you he can charge it back. Belive me I went through this kind of stuff with a company that does custom truck suspension and steering parts. So long as you can prove they didn't meet the agreed upon time-frame or quality you can have the CC do a charge back. 

[engineerjet]

Good thing I have a log of all the relevant correspondence 

[Bakerjd]

2 hours ago, engineerjet said:

I may yet have recourse. I requested a new gun be made or refund. Lets see what happens

TBH man I'd have a lawyer informed of what is going on. And the only thing I would accept is my money back. 

 

I get that you want a Honcho but...... they have already proven they aren't good at customer service and satisfaction. 

 

And on top of that I still don't understand how a basicly machine fit with just standard parts, not hand fit, how they can say it takes a year to build one. I can send $6,000 to another builder and have a brand new perfect open gun in 3 months max. And it won't have coating issues. 

[Rich406]

44 minutes ago, Bakerjd said:

You may want to check the laws on that. I can 100% guarantee you he can charge it back. Belive me I went through this kind of stuff with a company that does custom truck suspension and steering parts. So long as you can prove they didn't meet the agreed upon time-frame or quality you can have the CC do a charge back. 

 

*edit*

decided it wasn’t worth having this argument over the internet. 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Rich406

[engineerjet]

3 hours ago, Bakerjd said:

TBH man I'd have a lawyer informed of what is going on. And the only thing I would accept is my money back. 

 

I get that you want a Honcho but...... they have already proven they aren't good at customer service and satisfaction. 

 

And on top of that I still don't understand how a basicly machine fit with just standard parts, not hand fit, how they can say it takes a year to build one. I can send $6,000 to another builder and have a brand new perfect open gun in 3 months max. And it won't have coating issues. 

Truth be told, I'm not even sure I'm willing to wait all over again. This whole episode has been a nightmare.

[Bakerjd]

2 hours ago, engineerjet said:

Truth be told, I'm not even sure I'm willing to wait all over again. This whole episode has been a nightmare.

Yeah I here ya man. Sadly companies like this are out there and ruin it for people. Belive me there are many great builders around who wouldn't even hesitate to make this right. If you look on the 1911s forum on here you will find my thread on my Venom Customs 1911. Don had a bunch of troubles with the company that did the blue PVD on my 1911 and it ended up being I think 4 or 5 months of back and fourth between him and them. He was very very upfront with me through out the process and apologized to many times. Once it was all said and done he sent me the completed gun with 5 or 6 tripp 40 cal 1911 mags before I even sent him the final payment. I hope you get the outcome you want. 

[yigal]

8 hours ago, Bakerjd said:

 

 

And on top of that I still don't understand how a basicly machine fit with just standard parts, not hand fit, how they can say it takes a year to build one. I can send $6,000 to another builder and have a brand new perfect open gun in 3 months max. And it won't have coating issues. 

There are places in the world that handcraft a complete 1911 pistol with just a rough nail and a drill in a week.