3 weeks, one mini stage, 6 pistols

[Stafford]

Not a true diary, just observations from running a mini stage over and over with different guns the last three weeks. I’m a low B class shooter in CO running a Shadow 2. A co-worker wanted to practice/compete with me to see how he could do running a timed course. We both have stock SA Hellcats with a Holosun dot. The stage I set up was easy since we were using micro pistols and my buddy has never shot competition of any sort. 

 

All targets were USPSA targets and all were open. Starting position was facing two targets spaced 3 feet apart at 7 yards. After shooting the first two targets, sprint 7 yards downrange to the right and shoot another target placed at 12 yards. Then turn back uprange and turn left and sprint another 7 yards and shoot the final target at 15 yards. My best time with the Hellcat was 12.23 seconds with all shots on paper. 

 

It was my second time running the Hellcat with the dot as I had installed it a couple days previous and zeroed it the day prior to running the stage. I also ran from appendix as this is my current carry pistol.

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Stafford

[Stafford]

Same day, another friend showed up to shoot. He’s a bullseye guy who loves to shoot small groups with his .22LR’s. He’s not a competitive shooter, but shoots a lot and is young and in good shape. He decided to run the course with his Gen 5 Glock 19/RMR/JohnnyGlock set up and was able to get into the high 10 second mark. I also ran the course with his Glock 19 from the low ready and I believe my best time with all shots on paper was 10.62.

 

I was reallly surprised at how much of a difference there was between the Hellcat and the 19. I assumed the trigger was a big deal, but not sure what to think. More to come.

[Stafford]

Following day, and I’m not really planning to run this stage again as it started as just a fun thing to do with the Hellcats. But, the gun I have with me is the closest thing I’ve got to my friend’s Glock 19. I have a Glock 23 Gen 3, completely stock with Glock night sights.

 

From the draw, as opposed to the low ready the day before with the 19, I immediately broke into the high 10 second range, ran a 10.44 with all hits on paper and a 10.33 with one Mike. So I was faster with irons, a major caliber, and a stock trigger?

 

Observations... I’m getting better at running the same course. Because the course is all open targets and everything is 15 yards or closer, the dot is slower than irons... maybe? Not sure yet about that, just a hunch. The more you practice going fast, and not worrying about mikes, the faster you get. 

[Stafford]

Following week and I decide to run my regular Shadow 2 with Holosun dot and my first two runs are in the 11’s. I decide to really push the speed and get a 10.32 with all on paper and a 10.21 with a Mike. But I cheated the second position and stopped a yard short of the mark and shot it at 13 yards instead of 12 so I could move faster. 

 

Observations... it’s easier to sprint a short course with a plastic pistol than a boat anchor, but if you push it and cheat a step or two, you can do it. Basically, the Glock 23 is on par with my S2. Again, short distance targets and all wide open.

[Stafford]

Next time out and it will be my very limited Limited gun, a Glock 22 Gen 4 that I set up for Limited but have shot maybe twice. Fiber optics, grip plug, stainless guide rod, base pads, 25 cent trigger polish and Ghost 3.5 connector. If the 23 was very good, the 22 must be even better. Right?

 

At this point, I realized that I needed to write down my hits to determine which of my runs were best. To this point I was only looking at speed and noting if I was on paper or not. First run with the G22 was 10.78, followed by a 10.27, 9.51!, a 9.27!!, a 9.08!!!, and finally a blistering 8.75!!!! A couple of the faster runs had mikes and the 8.75 was 2A, 3C, 3D but all on paper. The first run of 10.78 was actually my best scoring run with 6 alphas.

 

Observations, I’m getting better at running the course and I’m not sure the gun matters at this point. I’m getting faster at going faster. 

[Stafford]

At some point during this trial and error stage running, I found Reds_Dot YouTube channel and this video:

 

[Stafford]

Reds_Dot is a member here though I don’t know him. In the above video, he talks about using a stock Glock in CO and he’s now using a Glock 22 with a stock trigger in Limited.

 

He also posted a link in the above video to a Nationals podcast video with the Humble Marksman and GM26/Cclassforlife. In the podcast, there is an interesting discussion about how the triggers aren’t that important in the grand scheme of things in overall shooting.

 

It was great to find his channel while simultaneously running this stage with a variety of pistols. 

[Stafford]

Today, I ran my stock Glock 17 Gen 5 with a Holosun on the same old short course. Was a bit more consistent, but not quite as fast for my best run. Started with a 10 flat, then 9.61, 9.68, 9.02, 9.81, and a 9.30. The 9.02 was also my best scoring run with 6 alphas but I was not able to duplicate the time in the final two runs. Since it was also my best scoring run, I think it may have been luck.

 

I still think that irons are faster on a course with open targets that are close, but I closed that gap with the G17 and dot today. At this point, I’ve probably reached a peak as far as how fast I can physically run this course. I may be able to shoot faster, but not physically run it faster. 

 

Next up, set up a different mini course, but this time with the targets out at farther distances and partial targets. Run it over and over with the Shadow 2 and G17 CO guns and the G22 with irons and see what happens. I expect that the S2 will make up speed against the plastics and be more accurate once the targets get longer and smaller. Or who knows, I may be faster with the .40 cal and irons. 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

9 hours ago, Stafford said:

I still think that irons are faster on a course with open targets that are close

 

About 3 yards and in, they are about the same.

 

Beyond that optics are faster if you know what you're doing.

 

PS for me personally Holosun optics, with their combination of small window and s#!tty reticles, are swlower than an optic with a huge window and big dot like an SRO.  I sold the only Holosun I've ever had.

 

I'm not sure how you can deduce that you are faster with pistol X vs pistol Y when you're running the same course over and over and over with one gun, the switching to another pistol and running it multiple times again.

 

Maybe if you had done it in round robin fashion it might be useful.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[Stafford]

I agree that I probably can’t make any real deductions. It started as a fun little race and then I started using it as a baseline to see how I would do with different pistols. I think one of the differences between my 8.75 run with the G22 and my 9.02 run with the G17 was that I was moving faster/felt quicker on that particular day. 

 

If nothing else, I’m making myself practice faster. And it’s fun. Whether one gun is “better” than the other? It probably doesn’t matter.  

 

One thing is definitely noticeable though. I can practice dry fire with my Shadow 2 and focus on a firm grip and practice with a firm grip, but when the timer goes off in a match, who knows. Sometimes at the end of a stage, or even after a match, I’ll think to myself, “did I grip the gun hard?” And I truly can’t remember if muscle memory took over and I gripped it or if I just ran around shooting targets and let the weight of the gun absorb the recoil.

 

With the Glocks, that is not the case. If I don’t have a good, firm grip I’ll know it after the first target. As a result, I always get a grip on the Glocks.

[Johnny_Chimpo]

10 hours ago, Stafford said:

If nothing else, I’m making myself practice faster.

 

There is a ton of value in that, you're right.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[Stafford]

Set up a different mini stage today. All four targets were partials and I increased the distance as well. Closest targets at 9 yards and the farthest at 22 yards. As I expected the Shadow 2 was the winner over the G17 and G22. I was fastest with the G22 with irons but not very accurate. If I had slowed down to ensure hits, the irons would have been the slowest. Slightly better with the G17 and dot, but the S2 with dot was clearly the best in my hands, mainly due to accuracy, especially with the two farther partial targets. Even ran it once with the G23 irons just to see and it wasn’t any different than the G22.

 

Clearly the closer wide open targets of the previous mini stage skewed my results. But, the wide open targets encouraged me to go faster. 

 

Also, the felt recoil of the .40’s were evident when running back to back with 9mm, especially when comparing the light Glock .40 caliber pistols to the heavyweight Shadow 2 in 9mm. 

 

I’ll keep practicing with the Glocks and my Hellcat as I like to be proficient with a variety of different types of pistols. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Stafford

[IC24]

Thanks for posting this.  I’m gearing up to start some local competition ad just set up a similar short course for a new shooter that may join me for some matches.  We did not run a timer this trip, but we will next time.  It does seem like an interesting way to gain some insight to my strengths and weakness with different platforms and gear.