Different starting position ‘spot’ for PCC

[Thomas H]

10 hours ago, motosapiens said:

reducing the number of pcc shooters perhaps..... as if thats a bad thing...

 

Never ceases to amaze me how people can't just let other people have fun in a different fashion than they have fun.

 

 

[motosapiens]

12 minutes ago, Thomas H said:

 

Never ceases to amaze me how people can't just let other people have fun in a different fashion than they have fun.

 

 

you have completely misunderstood. I totally support PCC shooters having fun in a different fashion and at a different match on a different day than me. I am all for it.

[Joe4d]

16 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

That's a suggestion from NROI, not a rule.  An MD or RM can ignore it if it wants.

Also using a false statement to support that suggestion... as stated above. Historically we certainly did have different start positions for different pistol divisions. Also there is absolutely NO reason different start positions have anything to do with a fair match.. No idea why he would even make that statement.  Keep telling us Divisions only compete against divisions... So how on earth is an inside a box start for SS unfair if open starts on top ? THEY ARNT COMPETING. 

[Gunjack]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

If one wants to be an ass it’s legal except for the shoe lace as that would be a safety issue. My point was LOCATION is part of the start position

[Gunjack]

25 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

Also using a false statement to support that suggestion... as stated above. Historically we certainly did have different start positions for different pistol divisions. Also there is absolutely NO reason different start positions have anything to do with a fair match.. No idea why he would even make that statement.  Keep telling us Divisions only compete against divisions... So how on earth is an inside a box start for SS unfair if open starts on top ? THEY ARNT COMPETING. 

50 plus yrs of various shooting competitions, trust me, everyone competes, division or no divisions, RULES can be applied but one thing that can’t be changed is human nature

[Joe4d]

and there is no rule requiring the same start position for all divisions.  Nor is there a rule requiring a MD to GAF if a SS shooter cries he has to start in a box, while the open guy starts on top of box. Or your PCC shooter 6 foot from a wall with toe marks while the pistol guys hands are on the wall . 

 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

6 hours ago, Gunjack said:

50 plus yrs of various shooting competitions, trust me, everyone competes, division or no divisions, RULES can be applied but one thing that can’t be changed is human nature

 

Then use the virtual match on practiscore

[RJH]

As a match director I wouldn't ever have different start locations/positions based on what gun somebody shooting. That's not being a dick to the shooter, that's being a dick to the RO who has to keep all that s*** organized. And if I was roing in the match director came to me and said that we were going to have that on my stage I'd tell him he's going to get a different ro for this stage. 

[Gunjack]

4 hours ago, RJH said:

As a match director I wouldn't ever have different start locations/positions based on what gun somebody shooting. That's not being a dick to the shooter, that's being a dick to the RO who has to keep all that s*** organized. And if I was roing in the match director came to me and said that we were going to have that on my stage I'd tell him he's going to get a different ro for this stage. 

+1

[outerlimits]

4 hours ago, RJH said:

As a match director I wouldn't ever have different start locations/positions based on what gun somebody shooting. That's not being a dick to the shooter, that's being a dick to the RO who has to keep all that s*** organized. And if I was roing in the match director came to me and said that we were going to have that on my stage I'd tell him he's going to get a different ro for this stage. 

damn near every WSB has different start positions for ppc.   get over it.  you bring a rifle to a pistol match, expect the unexpected...

[RJH]

14 minutes ago, outerlimits said:

damn near every WSB has different start positions for ppc.   get over it.  you bring a rifle to a pistol match, expect the unexpected...

 

The only thing I ever see different is PCC stock on belt instead of holstered, or muzzle touching wall instead of hands. Which is obviously necessary and reasonable, since PCCs are generally started in hands and not holstered

 

 I never see anything like: PCC unloaded on barrel when pistol is loaded in holster, or handgun shooters starting on an x in the shooting area and PCC shooters starting on an x 20 ft out of the shooting area. Any range master or stage designer that thinks of dumb s*** like this for his ro's to sift through needs to find a new job

[Johnny_Chimpo]

13 hours ago, RJH said:

As a match director I wouldn't ever have different start locations/positions based on what gun somebody shooting. That's not being a dick to the shooter, that's being a dick to the RO who has to keep all that s*** organized. And if I was roing in the match director came to me and said that we were going to have that on my stage I'd tell him he's going to get a different ro for this stage. 

 

it's written on a piece of paper.  If that's a challenge to keep track of, well............

[Johnny_Chimpo]

8 hours ago, RJH said:

 I never see anything like: PCC unloaded on barrel when pistol is loaded in holster, or handgun shooters starting on an x in the shooting area and PCC shooters starting on an x 20 ft out of the shooting area.

 

I have seen instances similar to both.  Pistol shooters loaded and holstered facing uprange, PCC shooters with the rifle unloaded on a barrel.

 

No RO on that stage, including me, had any difficulty keeping it straight.

[RJH]

1 hour ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

I have seen instances similar to both.  Pistol shooters loaded and holstered facing uprange, PCC shooters with the rifle unloaded on a barrel.

 

No RO on that stage, including me, had any difficulty keeping it straight.

 

That's interesting because I have seen ROs after running 50-100 or guys miss something as simple as wrist above shoulders or an unloaded start when guys are shooting pistol only, and have to restart a competitor or catch it at the last second before the beep.  

 

You are trying to justify being a douche to PCC shooters but you are wrong and it is a stupid idea. I recall one of the complaints when PCC started was that ROs were going to have to remember even more stuff, now we apparently have dumb stage designers adding even more to that. 

 

We are done here

[Thomas H]

2 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

I have seen instances similar to both.  Pistol shooters loaded and holstered facing uprange, PCC shooters with the rifle unloaded on a barrel.

 

No RO on that stage, including me, had any difficulty keeping it straight.

 

And then the people who don't like PCC shooters complain that having PCC shooters in the match makes them do stages differently---when literally THEY are the ones making the stages different.

 

Like I've said before---it is odd how so many people get so angry that other people have fun differently than they do.  And then make up illogical nonsense to attempt to justify their idiotic actions.

 

Take the initial example of the PCC shooter having to stand in a different spot to start.  How was that needed for safety?  It wasn't, obviously, since the PCC shooter will need to step INTO the shooting box/area to shoot.  Was there anything about it that was needed due to the stage design?  Obviously not.  So...literally, the stage designer added extra nonsense to their stage merely to make it different for PCC shooters.

 

People like that aren't helping the sport.

 

[RJH]

10 minutes ago, Thomas H said:

 

And then the people who don't like PCC shooters complain that having PCC shooters in the match makes them do stages differently---when literally THEY are the ones making the stages different.

 

Like I've said before---it is odd how so many people get so angry that other people have fun differently than they do.  And then make up illogical nonsense to attempt to justify their idiotic actions.

 

Take the initial example of the PCC shooter having to stand in a different spot to start.  How was that needed for safety?  It wasn't, obviously, since the PCC shooter will need to step INTO the shooting box/area to shoot.  Was there anything about it that was needed due to the stage design?  Obviously not.  So...literally, the stage designer added extra nonsense to their stage merely to make it different for PCC shooters.

 

People like that aren't helping the sport.

 

 

Yep. To be honest this whole topic seems like something that would come up at an IDPA or three gun match......

[Johnny_Chimpo]

9 hours ago, RJH said:

 

That's interesting because I have seen ROs after running 50-100 or guys miss something as simple as wrist above shoulders or an unloaded start when guys are shooting pistol only, and have to restart a competitor or catch it at the last second before the beep.  

LOL so by your own very argument, a different start position for one division isn't any worse than the same one for everyone.

 

9 hours ago, RJH said:

You are trying to justify being a douche to PCC shooters but you are wrong and it is a stupid idea.

 

It's legal and I don't care if you don't like it.

[Johnny_Chimpo]

8 hours ago, Thomas H said:

Take the initial example of the PCC shooter having to stand in a different spot to start.  How was that needed for safety?  It wasn't, obviously, since the PCC shooter will need to step INTO the shooting box/area to shoot.  Was there anything about it that was needed due to the stage design?  Obviously not.  So...literally, the stage designer added extra nonsense to their stage merely to make it different for PCC shooters.

 

I didn't design that stage so I'm not going to comment on the reasons behind its design.

 

I do know that the example I gave (pistol shooters loaded and holstered, facing uprange; PCC shooters facing downrange away from barrel where unloaded carbine rested) was done to try to right the imbalance that PCC brings since PCC shooters can't be made to do certain things that pistol shooters can (like starting while facing uprange)

[RJH]

5 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

LOL so by your own very argument, a different start position for one division isn't any worse than the same one for everyone.

 

No, that's not at all what I said 

 

5 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

It's legal and I don't care if you don't like it.

 

It's douchey and only a douche would do it

[RJH]

4 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

I didn't design that stage so I'm not going to comment on the reasons behind its design.

 

I do know that the example I gave (pistol shooters loaded and holstered, facing uprange; PCC shooters facing downrange away from barrel where unloaded carbine rested) was done to try to right the imbalance that PCC brings since PCC shooters can't be made to do certain things that pistol shooters can (like starting while facing uprange)

 

In case you didn't understand PCC shooters only shoot against PCC shooters. So pistol shooters that are designing stages shouldn't get their feelings hurt if a PCC shooter kicks their ass. Once again you're only making it harder on the RO, because guess what, PCC only shoots against PCC 

 

 

PS don't forget we're done here...

 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

9 minutes ago, RJH said:

In case you didn't understand PCC shooters only shoot against PCC shooters.

 

So a different position for them doesn't matter.  Thanks for defeating your own argument a second time.

[rishii]

2 can play at that game
if a MD at my club did that, the next match I MD 

id put hard cover and no shoots on all targets, plus small plates at 20 yards

every stage would have facing up range starts for the pistol shooters

etc

to quote a rather infamous King, “can’t we all just get along”

 

 

[RJH]

42 minutes ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

So a different position for them doesn't matter.  Thanks for defeating your own argument a second time.

 

It matters to the RO working the stage, which was my point the whole time 

 

Later Schultz 

 

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by RJH

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, RJH said:

 

 

 

It's douchey and only a douche would do it

meh, only a douche would shoot a rifle at a pistol match and then whine like a spoiled little girl that he didn’t get as much of an advantage as he was hoping for.

 

i wouldn’t start pcc’s 20 feet away, but i see no problem having them start ouside the box. when i do a hands on marks start for real guns i make pccs put muzzle on one mark and toes touching another mark at the bottom of the wall, so everyone gets to touch 2 marks and be equal. we also let pccs use the same bathroom, which is woke AF.

[outerlimits]

7 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

meh, only a douche would shoot a rifle at a pistol match and then whine like a spoiled little girl that he didn’t get as much of an advantage as he was hoping for.

 

i wouldn’t start pcc’s 20 feet away, but i see no problem having them start ouside the box. when i do a hands on marks start for real guns i make pccs put muzzle on one mark and toes touching another mark at the bottom of the wall, so everyone gets to touch 2 marks and be equal. we also let pccs use the same bathroom, which is woke AF.

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