Is 124.55 power factor minor?

[Johnny_Chimpo]

7 hours ago, RJH said:

 

Do you have it? Or know where to find it? Would be interesting to see. Also would be interesting to know the barrel length the ammo was tested in

 

I do not.  That's why I am not passing judgement.

[Johnny_Chimpo]

5 hours ago, Miranda said:

 

k.  you clearly have a horse in this race.

why do you not state what is on your mind.

 

I have a report that the ammo did not make the cutoff.

if you want to dis credit it, you should do so.

 

I make a statement that is a proper response to that infraction.

 

I happen to know a light power round is easier to run at speed.

and there is a reason for the power floor. 

it is also called a clear competitive advantage when you do not meet that specification.

 

the appearance is attempting to get close to a fail edge

much like an under weight race car. 

we know why it happened. 

 

miranda

 

 

 

 

 

I challenged you to show the three shot average velocity of the certified ammo control sample used at Nationals to judge Max Michel's ammo sample.  This is required by the USPSA Rules Appendix C3, which you clearly either can't understand or are ignoring.

 

You have not been able to show the data from that control sample.  You have nothing.

 

We are done here.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[BritinUSA]

That data should be posted by USPSA, has anyone asked them to provide it? I presume the chrono crew would be the ones to have done the certification at the match.

[rowdyb]

Who is asking about records, accountability and transparency in regards to uspsa? That is the best laugh I've had in days.

 

Is ammo and chrono a place where people try to cheat? Definitely! 

 

But as long as all the procedures were followed this is nothing. (Unlike all the times I've seen people actually cheat.)

[motosapiens]

I would have lol'd if max had shot for no score, but this is not the first time that certified ammo has come up short. Everyone who reloads has probably experienced variability in chrono results with different guns, even of the same brand and model. Some barrels are just faster than others. 

 

If i were max, I'd be less worried about so-called cheating, and more worried about getting popper-f*ked. Shooting subminor ammo is kind of being dressed like you want it with respect to f**-ing from poppers. I'd probably be doing a little chrono work with my guns and the sig ammo to make sure I can reliably knock steel down when it matters.

[RJH]

4 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

I would have lol'd if max had shot for no score, but this is not the first time that certified ammo has come up short. Everyone who reloads has probably experienced variability in chrono results with different guns, even of the same brand and model. Some barrels are just faster than others. 

 

If i were max, I'd be less worried about so-called cheating, and more worried about getting popper-f*ked. Shooting subminor ammo is kind of being dressed like you want it with respect to f**-ing from poppers. I'd probably be doing a little chrono work with my guns and the sig ammo to make sure I can reliably knock steel down when it matters.

 

I noticed JJ was at 135pf this year

[motosapiens]

Just now, RJH said:

 

I noticed JJ was at 135pf this year

when the supersquad got to my stage (stage 9, in a double bay), I noticed that the RO's on stage 8 were double-checking their poppers. I joked to my RO's that they probably needed to set them extra light so max's ammo would knock them over. JJ overheard that and laughed harder than anyone. Everyone's ammo was hot enough to get all the way through the paper targets on my side.

[Boomstick303]

17 minutes ago, RJH said:

I noticed JJ was at 135pf this year

 

Last year JJ cracked a joke at CO Nationals for his very first statement at the Awards Dinner about ammo after winning it.  I don't think he will ever come close on PF moving forward.  

[Miranda]

7 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

I challenged you to show the three shot average velocity of the certified ammo control sample used at Nationals to judge Max Michel's ammo sample.  This is required by the USPSA Rules Appendix C3, which you clearly either can't understand or are ignoring.

 

You have not been able to show the data from that control sample.  You have nothing.

 

We are done here.

 

 

 

I see.  you have not a clue and are upset that someone else

could make a lucid comment.

your posts have me thinking you have taken the report personally.

 

It case it was not clear,  I have come to trust the comments here on this forum

and I didn't feel the need to state 'the alledged infraction'  because

I was pointing out a way to prevent or discourage that action.

it does not matter exactly how true the report happens to be

for my comment to be valid.

 

to kick this a little further ...

I raced Karts for a time.  the performance of a kart is a direct line

to weight,  so there are weight limits.

to get close to that limit you needed to go get on the scales.

"perspiration" has caused some DQs, it is that close.

 

I do not claim cheating there or here.

If you are willing to flirt with an infraction

you had better be ready to accept being on the wrong side

of the rules we have agreed are fair.

 

miranda

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Miranda
left a phrase dangling...

[IL-SIG]

All competitor’s Chrono results are available on PractiScore for anyone who cares to take a look. This provides full transparency regarding all competitor scores for all stages. 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

3 hours ago, Miranda said:

I see.  you have not a clue and are upset that someone else

could make a lucid comment

 

 

That's rich.  LOL

 

 

[BritinUSA]

58 minutes ago, IL-SIG said:

All competitor’s Chrono results are available on PractiScore for anyone who cares to take a look. This provides full transparency regarding all competitor scores for all stages. 

I could not find the certification results for the match ammo on Practiscore. It’s possible that they don’t have a function to record or show that data.

[euxx]

Just now, BritinUSA said:

I could not find the certification results for the match ammo on Practiscore. It’s possible that they don’t have a function to record or show that data.

 

THEY provided a free text entry field on the Chrono scoring screen where RO can record all notes that need to be recorded in regards to any decisions made at the Chrono stage. Like when someone's scores still in when the ammo didn't make Minor PF, as well as all other things, including any details why bunch of competitors been moved to Open.

[Bakerjd]

7 hours ago, euxx said:

 

THEY provided a free text entry field on the Chrono scoring screen where RO can record all notes that need to be recorded in regards to any decisions made at the Chrono stage. Like when someone's scores still in when the ammo didn't make Minor PF, as well as all other things, including any details why bunch of competitors been moved to Open.

It's probably noted there but we can't see it on the app or the internet page. 

 

If any of you think this was cheating it's hilarious. The rules are there to be used amd pushed. Get over it. If you want to have the same cushion at chrono buy certified ammo, and declare it when you register at the match. Pretty simple really. 

[gng4life]

Just now, Bakerjd said:

It's probably noted there but we can't see it on the app or the internet page. 

 

If any of you think this was cheating it's hilarious. The rules are there to be used amd pushed. Get over it. If you want to have the same cushion at chrono buy certified ammo, and declare it when you register at the match. Pretty simple really. 

+1

[Miranda]

16 minutes ago, Bakerjd said:

It's probably noted there but we can't see it on the app or the internet page. 

 

If any of you think this was cheating it's hilarious. The rules are there to be used amd pushed. Get over it. If you want to have the same cushion at chrono buy certified ammo, and declare it when you register at the match. Pretty simple really. 

 

I agree it is a great way to sell ammo.

[Johnny_Chimpo]

6 hours ago, Bakerjd said:

If any of you think this was cheating it's hilarious. The rules are there to be used amd pushed. Get over it. If you want to have the same cushion at chrono buy certified ammo, and declare it when you register at the match. Pretty simple really. 

 

+2

[ddc]

11 hours ago, Bakerjd said:

If you want to have the same cushion at chrono buy certified ammo, and declare it when you register at the match. Pretty simple really. 

 

So is there now going to be a run on Sig certified ammo? lol...

 

Prior to the next nationals a bunch of Facebook postings: "Looking to buy Sig certified ammo. Price not an issue."

[euxx]

11 hours ago, Bakerjd said:

It's probably noted there but we can't see it on the app or the internet page. 

 

If any of you think this was cheating it's hilarious. The rules are there to be used amd pushed. Get over it. If you want to have the same cushion at chrono buy certified ammo, and declare it when you register at the match. Pretty simple really. 

 

Apparently notes were used for exactly that purpose and you all can see it in the results and in the Competitor app.
https://practiscore.com/results/html/8c248281-b98e-46ea-b63a-242be11fb950?page=stage19-combined

 

 

[Sinister4]

31 minutes ago, euxx said:

 

Apparently notes were used for exactly that purpose and you all can see it in the results and in the Competitor app.
https://practiscore.com/results/html/8c248281-b98e-46ea-b63a-242be11fb950?page=stage19-combined

 

 

Well the dude shooting 151 PF was taking no chances with steel falling lol   

[euxx]

4 minutes ago, Sinister4 said:

Well the dude shooting 151 PF was taking no chances with steel falling lol   

Mo interestingly, another competitor with PF 121.4 still having his scores in the match...

[RJH]

6 minutes ago, euxx said:

Mo interestingly, another competitor with PF 121.4 still having his scores in the match...

 

I saw that one too, I didn't look it up but just figured he was shooting some sig ammo as well. Maybe out of a 4-in gun

[motosapiens]

12 hours ago, Miranda said:

 

I agree it is a great way to sell ammo.

After JJ's experience at production nats (losing the title because of weak ammo), why would anyone want to use weak ammo and risk not knocking down steel? That seems crazy. If I bought certified ammo and it came under 125 (or even close to 125) I'd be pissed. I want my ammo over 130.

Edited September 14, 2022 by motosapiens

[Miranda]

12 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

After JJ's experience at production nats (losing the title because of weak ammo), why would anyone want to use weak ammo and risk not knocking down steel? That seems crazy. If I bought certified ammo and it came under 125 (or even close to 125) I'd be pissed. I want my ammo over 130.

it may be a misunderstanding on my part.

I thought the 'certified' ammo was given 10 PF points of leeway from the certified PF before the competitor was penalized.

 

miranda

[RJH]

39 minutes ago, Miranda said:

it may be a misunderstanding on my part.

I thought the 'certified' ammo was given 10 PF points of leeway from the certified PF before the competitor was penalized.

 

miranda

 

You're right, but nobody tells the poppers that