Lee Factory Crimp Die (w/o the crimp parts) on 1100 Priming Station?

[hlsccsfa]

Hello,

 

I have been reloading with my 1100 for nearly a year now. One of the pain points when reloading with mixed headstamp brass is that the chance of case gauge failure is pretty high due to slight variation in case dimensions. Also I think a hold down die on the priming station would be helpful to get more consistent primer seating depth. Problem is that hand sorting brass by headstamp is too time consuming, and the everglade 1050 priming hold down die no longer works with the  RL1100 factory toolhead.

 

I am trying to get an aftermarket toolhead for my 1100 so I could use a Lee Factory Crimp Die (w/o the parts for crimping) on the priming station. IMO it could help with above issue/improvement. The carbide sizing ring inside the die would help reduce the chance of case gauge failure and at the same time serves as a hold down die for priming. I wouldn't be worried about an accidentally detonated primer hurting myself either because by removing the crimping parts there is no enclosed space. Also, I have verified with a resized & expanded case (mouth expanded with Dillon factory expander/swage backup die on station 3) that the carbide sizing ring does not change the case mouth expansion.

 

I would love your inputs on this.

[ddc]

Couldn't you use a regular sizing die with the de-capping pin removed at that location?

 

I'm curious what the FCD does with respect to sizing that the regular sizing die does not.

[hlsccsfa]

1 hour ago, ddc said:

Couldn't you use a regular sizing die with the de-capping pin removed at that location?

 

I'm curious what the FCD does with respect to sizing that the regular sizing die does not.

As I said in the 1st post, when loading with mix headstamp brass, the slight variation in the dimension of different brand cases sometimes prevents the full length sizing die from going all the way down by a few thousands of an inch, and that would result in case gauge failure. The FCD helps ensuring the lower part of the case meet SAAMI specification while keeping the mouth expansion after station 3. I find the Dillon expander die on station 3 keeps the bullet coating unscratched during seating process.

Edited September 9, 2022 by hlsccsfa

[HesedTech]

2 hours ago, hlsccsfa said:

I have been reloading with my 1100 for nearly a year now. One of the pain points when reloading with mixed headstamp brass is that the chance of case gauge failure is pretty high due to slight variation in case dimensions. Also

Have you ever case gauged after sizing, but before powder and bullet seating? 
 

The idea of mixed headstamps being the issue should only come after bullet seating and not before. 147s often seat deep and will bulge the case where it tapers to a thicker wall. CBC are notorious for this issue. There are hold down dies for the primer station which do not require a threaded position. 
 

The Dillon sizing die should, if properly adjusted, correctly size all headstamps.  That is unless you have the old Glock bulge, then you need a roll sizer or push through die to fix it.

 

The bell for bullet seating comes from the powder funnel and is why many if not most use the MBF powder funnel for pistol rounds. 

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by HesedTech

[dansedgli]

I didnt need any primer gadgets on my 1050. Is your shellplate tight enough? 

 

I use an egw undersized sizing die and the rest are dillon. I stopped case gauging years ago and barrel drop before nationals just in case. 

 

 

[ddc]

29 minutes ago, hlsccsfa said:

As I said in the 1st post, when loading with mix headstamp brass, the slight variation in the dimension of different brand cases sometimes prevents the full length sizing die from going all the way down by a few thousands of an inch, and that would result in case gauge failure. The FCD helps ensuring the lower part of the case meet SAAMI specification while keeping the mouth expansion after station 3. I find the Dillon expander die on station 3 keeps the bullet coating unscratched during seating process.

 

Thanks, I overlooked the fact that the sizing die would remove your flare.

 

However it is not obvious to me that the sizing die sizes differently for different headstamps. Perhaps it does indeed, just never been obvious to me.

Also does the FCD truly size farther down a case than a sizing die? Not saying it doesn't; just curious.

 

Edited to add: And I would think if the FCD is doing any good wouldn't it remove the flare also? Maybe I don't understand how the FCD sizing works...

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by ddc

[hlsccsfa]

1 hour ago, dansedgli said:

I didnt need any primer gadgets on my 1050. Is your shellplate tight enough? 

 

I use an egw undersized sizing die and the rest are dillon. I stopped case gauging years ago and barrel drop before nationals just in case. 

 

 

Shell plate is tight enough. It is not that I am having high primers, I just don’t like the seating depth variation, some measures only 0.002”, I would like 0.005” at least since I am using light hammer springs on both of my shadow 2 and stock 2

Edited September 9, 2022 by hlsccsfa

[hlsccsfa]

1 hour ago, HesedTech said:

Have you ever case gauged after sizing, but before powder and bullet seating? 
 

The idea of mixed headstamps being the issue should only come after bullet seating and not before. 147s often seat deep and will bulge the case where it tapers to a thicker wall. CBC are notorious for this issue. There are hold down dies for the primer station which do not require a threaded position. 
 

The Dillon sizing die should, if properly adjusted, correctly size all headstamps.  That is unless you have the old Glock bulge, then you need a roll sizer or push through die to fix it.

 

The bell for bullet seating comes from the powder funnel and is why many if not most use the MBF powder funnel for pistol rounds. 

 

100% agree with you, that would also contribute to sizing die not going down all the way. I actually did try case gauging after sizing and before seating, the result is much more satisfying when there is no die in any other stations, meaning when the press is used for sizing/decapping only.

[hlsccsfa]

1 hour ago, ddc said:

 

Thanks, I overlooked the fact that the sizing die would remove your flare.

 

However it is not obvious to me that the sizing die sizes differently for different headstamps. Perhaps it does indeed, just never been obvious to me.

Also does the FCD truly size farther down a case than a sizing die? Not saying it doesn't; just curious.

 

Edited to add: And I would think if the FCD is doing any good wouldn't it remove the flare also? Maybe I don't understand how the FCD sizing works...

 

The expander die on station 3 does not 'flare' the case mouth, it expands diameter of the top 1/4 of case by roughly 0.005". The flare is done by the powder funnel on station 5. I posted a few photos below to help explaining

Edited September 9, 2022 by hlsccsfa

[hlsccsfa]

case diameter ~0.372" after sizing and before expander

[hlsccsfa]

case mouth diameter 0.377" after expander, before powder station

[hlsccsfa]

Since I don't have an aftermarket toolhead yet, I can only demo the FCD on station 4 like this: the case would go into the die completely, and the case mouth diameter measures exactly 0.377" after being inserted into the die body. I think it is safe to say that the carbide sizing ring in the FCD only works on the lower half of the case body, and not completely resize the entire case, which actually suits my purpose here.

 

 

 

 

[hlsccsfa]

Case mouth diameter after powder station where the powder funnel flares the case mouth to 0.383", and the case wouldn't go into the FCD

 

 

[HesedTech]

1 hour ago, hlsccsfa said:

Case mouth diameter after powder station where the powder funnel flares the case mouth to 0.383", and the case wouldn't go into the FCD

Okay, I can’t tell you what to do, but I believe you are trying to do something none of us have issues with. 
 

The standard  for loading 9mm and 40sw on a Dillon 1100 is station 1, decap and size, station 2 hold down die swage primer pocket, station 3 seat primer, 4 using expander type of powder funnel (Mr. Bullet Feeder or similar) drop powder and expand/bell for bullet, 5 set bullet, 6 seat bullet and finally remove bell.

 

Use either the Dillon taper crimp die or Lee taper crimp die (not the FCD) to remove the slight bell. 

 

If you need a hold down die at the primer station use this: https://lvl10i.com/products/priming-system-support-die-for-super-1050. It doesn’t need threads on the tool head. I use it and it does improve consistency in primer depth. 
 

I guarantee you if you have the sizing die set correctly your rounds will work. As I mentioned before, 147s and 135s can bulge some headstamps, especially with .357+ 9mm bullets, when seated deep. 
 

You don’t need an aftermarket tool head.

Sizing dies that always work are Dillon and undersized Lee and similar. Dillon pistol dies are slightly undersized and will “coke” bottle after reloading. You don’t need a FCD to fix rounds. 
 

 

This process Has work for me for years. 
 

Once you figure out a process that works for you stick with it.  
 

Enjoy. 

Edited September 10, 2022 by HesedTech

[hlsccsfa]

43 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

Okay, I can’t tell you what to do, but I believe you are trying to do something none of us have issues with. 

I find it impossible that, after loading 30k+ 125gr blue bullets sized at 0.355" using mixed headstamp range picked up brass, 100% of the finished rounds would pass my hundo case gauge. The failure rate is pretty high at 5+%. I have 8k+ blazer brass cases. When loading the same bullets with these cases, 99.9% would pass the case gauge. BTW, I use exactly the same setup with MBF and I use only Dillon dies. This experience leads me to believe the main reason for the high failure rate was the dimension variation of the mixed headstamp cases.

 

Also from my own experience, I once loaded 500 rounds without noticing the sizing/decapping die lock nut was slightly loose, resulting in failure of all 500 rounds at case gauge. I then ran these rounds through a FCD w/o the crimp parts, I was able to resize them without changing the case mouth diameter and neck tension. All 500 rounds passed case gauge after that. Accuracy of these "repaired" rounds was the same as my normal reloads. 

 

That's why I am thinking about using FCD with an aftermarket toolhead to reduce the chance of case gauge failure. And I assume that it would also serves as a nice hold down die.

Edited September 10, 2022 by hlsccsfa

[HesedTech]

58 minutes ago, hlsccsfa said:

The failure rate is pretty high at 5+%

All I can say is these days using only range brass, I don’t sort, my failure rate is 1 out of 1000. These are mostly due to case failures, splitting or upside down primer.  But, it took me a lot of careful process and picking of dies to get here.

 

I load 147 FP because they can be loaded to a longer OAL and thus have less bulging issues with bullet seating. RN 124s Everglades V2 plated for PCC with an OAL of 1.10. RN 147s and 135 cause more bulges and need to be loaded to shorter OAL because of the fat profiles.

 

I two pass my brass. The first decaps and sizes using a FW self center decapping die in #1 and Dillon sizing in #5. 
 

Water tumble sized and decapped brass. Love Brass Juice for a cleaning solution, no pins needed. 

2 pass is for loading with clean sized brass. I use the Dillon hold down die at the swage station, the LVL10 at the priming, MBF powder funnel, MBF to set bullet RCBS seating die with micrometer (guides bullet straight into brass) and Dillon taper crimp to only remove bell.

 

All finished loads gets Hundo checked. During load development the OAL is determined by plunk test with actual barrel. 
 

This works really well with, 1 out of 1000 failures. 
 

The single pass process I found had more failed rounds and they were dirtier due to the case lube. 
 

That’s what works for me and has done so for tens of thousands of rounds every year. 
 

Hope this helps you develop a process that works for you. 

Edited September 10, 2022 by HesedTech

[hlsccsfa]

33 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

All I can say is these days using only range brass, I don’t sort, my failure rate is 1 out of 1000. These are mostly due to case failures, splitting or upside down primer.  But, it took me a lot of careful process and picking of dies to get here.

 

I load 147 FP because they can be loaded to a longer OAL and thus have less bulging issues with bullet seating. RN 124s Everglades V2 plated for PCC with an OAL of 1.10. RN 147s and 135 cause more bulges and need to be loaded to shorter OAL because of the fat profiles.

 

I two pass my brass. The first decaps and sizes using a FW self center decapping die in #1 and Dillon sizing in #5. 
 

Water tumble sized and decapped brass. Love Brass Juice for a cleaning solution, no pins needed. 

2 pass is for loading with clean sized brass. I use the Dillon hold down die at the swage station, the LVL10 at the priming, MBF powder funnel, MBF to set bullet RCBS seating die with micrometer (guides bullet straight into brass) and Dillon taper crimp to only remove bell.

 

All finished loads gets Hundo checked. During load development the OAL is determined by plunk test with actual barrel. 
 

This works really well with, 1 out of 1000 failures. 
 

The single pass process I found had more failed rounds and they were dirtier due to the case lube. 
 

That’s what works for me and has done so for tens of thousands of rounds every year. 
 

Hope this helps you develop a process that works for you. 

Very useful information. Thanks!

[brian45acp]

18 hours ago, hlsccsfa said:

As I said in the 1st post, when loading with mix headstamp brass, the slight variation in the dimension of different brand cases sometimes prevents the full length sizing die from going all the way down by a few thousands of an inch, and that would result in case gauge failure. The FCD helps ensuring the lower part of the case meet SAAMI specification while keeping the mouth expansion after station 3. I find the Dillon expander die on station 3 keeps the bullet coating unscratched during seating process.

I am going through all this now as well. The reason for change are the ginex primers not seating like CCI. The non hold down of the prime station has always been an issue but most ignore it and crank the adjustment pin more to excessively shove the primer higher into the case. With hold down I get perfectly seated primers with no deformation and they are all below flush. Most these guys I bet if we took a razor edge laid across the headstamp we would see the primers are flush or slightly high and they dont realize it. CNC shooter still has toolhead and is the only one out there that is made of steel. I just got mine last week and he has 25 left. I have a mighty armory spring loaded hold down die in that station and it just hardly clears the primer arm bracket. I had to do some shaving of that bracket to get better clearance. 

 

I also use mixed brass and the everglades screw hold down gives me issues so that was out. If you dont want to go down the rabbit hole like I did I would go to level 10 innovations and get their spring loaded hold down die. it is made for non threaded toolheads and you wont have to get a new tool head. 

 

I tried mighty armory dies but that didnt go so well so right now I just ordered Lyman pro dies. One of the dies is an expander flare die and I plan to use that in the priming station which from the looks of it would have more clearance to that primer bar bracket, even though my modified bracket is good to go now. So one way or the other I am covered. I either am going to expand/flare in the priming station with the CNC toolhead or continue using my spring loaded hold down die and then use my alpha dropper in the powder station to expand/flare. 

 

I have always uses LEE under side die and factory crimp die but after all these years of loading I want to fine tune my ammo for better quality so here I am screwing with shhit and driving myself nuts lol. 

 

In terms of why you are not passing case gauge that is something else going on. If you are using lead bullets it could be a variance in sizing giving you issues. Using those coated bullets is budget friendly but there is a difference between those and Montana gold or precision delta for sure. Its part of what you accept for the savings. 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2022 by brian45acp

[jubi351]

Another option for spring loaded hold down is FW. Just took possession of one, very nice.

[hlsccsfa]

2 hours ago, brian45acp said:

I have always uses LEE under side die and factory crimp die but after all these years of loading I want to fine tune my ammo for better quality so here I am screwing with shhit and driving myself nuts lol.  

Lol... Same here, driving myself nuts trying to save time on brass processing

 

3 hours ago, brian45acp said:

In terms of why you are not passing case gauge that is something else going on. If you are using lead bullets it could be a variance in sizing giving you issues. Using those coated bullets is budget friendly but there is a difference between those and Montana gold or precision delta for sure. Its part of what you accept for the savings. 

 

 

I mainly use 125gr blue bullets which are very popular among USPSA/IDPA shooters. These are pretty consistently coated and sized at 0.355". When loading with brass with the same headstamp, e.g. blazer brass cases I saved from the time I shot factory ammo, I only get ~1 out of 1000 failure rate when case gauging. When loading with mixed headstamp range picked-up cases that are pre-processed (sized and de-primed), I get roughly the same result. Only when loading with mixed headstamp range picked-up cases that are not pre-processed (still wet tumbled with SS pins) I am having 5% or higher failure rate. So I am pretty sure it is brass related issue. 

 

From HesedTech's reply, I think 2 pass sizing the brass before seating/crimping would help to reduce the failure rate. I just sent CNC Shooters an inquiry for their toolhead, hope he would get back to me soon.

[hlsccsfa]

3 hours ago, jubi351 said:

Another option for spring loaded hold down is FW. Just took possession of one, very nice.

Those are very nice indeed. 

[Johnnymazz]

I have been loading mixed range brass on my automated RL1100 for nearly 3 years now. Your over complicating the issue. I also prime my brass and full length resize before loading. Its referred to as a 2 step process. Never had any issues. My friend owns Target Shooting Solutions in Avondale PA.  thats where I get my mixed range brass. Over the last 70,000 rounds that I have loaded I would have approx 8 to 10 cases that would fail my case gauge per 1,000 cases checked.  I also have both of the pistols that you mentioned. I run a separate tool head for priming only. The best thing that I did to prevent a lot of loaded ammo failing the case gauge was to purchase a roll sizer. I also have the Decapper machine. Since I started using the rollsizer I might have 1 case fail out of 2,000 that I run through the gauge.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Johnnymazz

[Johnnymazz]

Here is a pic of my priming only tool head. I run a full length resize die in station #3 and a shell hold swage die in station #5. This keeps the plate steady. There's no need to have anything above the priming station. I shoot Blue bullets 115 grain out of all my high end pistols.Hope this helps.

Edited September 11, 2022 by Johnnymazz

[Johnnymazz]

My other Rl1100 I use to load powder and bullets only. I use a Lyman M die to flare the case mouth. The powder measure is just set to drop the powder no flare. This helps greatly for consistent ammo along with the Rollsizer. My CZ Custom A01 LD has a tight chamber along with my other CZ pistols. If you in the Avondale area anytime, your more than welcome to try out my ammo in your pistol, Im there every Sunday at 9am. Just shoot me a PM. BTW Im using the Armanov case gauge for 9mm. I also load 147 gr for my subsonic rounds,

Edited September 11, 2022 by Johnnymazz

[hlsccsfa]

On 9/10/2022 at 9:57 PM, Johnnymazz said:

My friend owns Target Shooting Solutions in Avondale PA.  thats where I get my mixed range brass.

TSS is nice, very good facilities. I taught a few NRA pistol classes there a few years ago there.