Czechmate Dot Bounce

[JRS1985]

Good  morning enos team!

After my last unfortunate trip to the open division with a 2011 i'm finally back with a Czechmate.

The gun runs perfectly and has served me well in 11 major matches.
I installed a brass magazine well as well as an alternative optics mount with a holosun 510 c gr from Sebo.

 

My current load is 8.7 gr Vectan SP2 behind a 121 gr Frontier bullet.
Power factor measured 173.

Personally, I find the behavior of my Dot  to be very wild. Other shooters confirm this as well. My question would be how do I proceed. Another compensator from Sebo? It seems to have less Space for Gas than the original? a member of this board once said to me if you don't like what your compensator does you need more gas, but I don't think this will lead to success here?

Any Ideas?

 

[Rnlinebacker]

4 hours ago, JRS1985 said:

Good  morning enos team!

After my last unfortunate trip to the open division with a 2011 i'm finally back with a Czechmate.

The gun runs perfectly and has served me well in 11 major matches.
I installed a brass magazine well as well as an alternative optics mount with a holosun 510 c gr from Sebo.

 

My current load is 8.7 gr Vectan SP2 behind a 121 gr Frontier bullet.
Power factor measured 173.

Personally, I find the behavior of my Dot  to be very wild. Other shooters confirm this as well. My question would be how do I proceed. Another compensator from Sebo? It seems to have less Space for Gas than the original? a member of this board once said to me if you don't like what your compensator does you need more gas, but I don't think this will lead to success here?

Any Ideas?

 

Noticed the same with mine. Went down to 168-69 pf and it's much less now

[Cowboy_Ninja]

I would experiment with a different powder. I get a little of dot bounce with 7.6 grains of hs-6 but its very predictable.

[Ludde]

On 8/22/2022 at 10:33 AM, JRS1985 said:

Good  morning enos team!

After my last unfortunate trip to the open division with a 2011 i'm finally back with a Czechmate.

The gun runs perfectly and has served me well in 11 major matches.
I installed a brass magazine well as well as an alternative optics mount with a holosun 510 c gr from Sebo.

 

My current load is 8.7 gr Vectan SP2 behind a 121 gr Frontier bullet.
Power factor measured 173.

Personally, I find the behavior of my Dot  to be very wild. Other shooters confirm this as well. My question would be how do I proceed. Another compensator from Sebo? It seems to have less Space for Gas than the original? a member of this board once said to me if you don't like what your compensator does you need more gas, but I don't think this will lead to success here?

Any Ideas?

 

Try e.g. VihtaVuori 3n38 and keep it around 168 pf.

Some thoughts below..
I have my own perception from testing different comps and combinations. The comp design is crucial, more gas might not be better (depends on your whole setup).
I have not tested the sebo one but from the looks of it I would assume it being a tad more effective, however due to less weight it might not slow the slide/barrel down much compared to the original steel one (steel one slowing down slide/barrel velocity also due to weight/inertia). In general a more effective (assumption) comp like the Sebo one and lower the PF below 170pf to get overall bullet velocity down and counter reaction slide/barrel movement speed.

 

 

By the way, what lbs hammer and recoilspring are you using?
 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Ludde

[JRS1985]

@Ludde

Sorry for the late reply, my business and stupid new corona rules for the gyms  kept me awake 24/7.

i use my czechmate in the factory configuration. There was only one other recoil spring that seems weaker to me and does not change the firing behavior of the weapon.

3n38 is a slightly more specific problem.

the prices for powder in Germany have gone through the roof and 1 kg of 3n38 costs me almost 200€ while SP2 is even more affordable at 120€.

1000 SPM Primers are about 150€ and if I choose a powder even more expensive things get dirty….. I want to thank everyone else very much. I'll try to lower the charge a bit and see if that brings an improvement.

Maybe i will give the Sebo Comp a Try.

 

 

 

[Ludde]

9 hours ago, JRS1985 said:

@Ludde

Sorry for the late reply, my business and stupid new corona rules for the gyms  kept me awake 24/7.

i use my czechmate in the factory configuration. There was only one other recoil spring that seems weaker to me and does not change the firing behavior of the weapon.

3n38 is a slightly more specific problem.

the prices for powder in Germany have gone through the roof and 1 kg of 3n38 costs me almost 200€ while SP2 is even more affordable at 120€.

1000 SPM Primers are about 150€ and if I choose a powder even more expensive things get dirty….. I want to thank everyone else very much. I'll try to lower the charge a bit and see if that brings an improvement.

Maybe i will give the Sebo Comp a Try.

 

 

 

If you are in europe and shoot ipsc try closer to 165pf and as slow powder as you can find within reason. 20lb hammer spring an 9lbs recoil spring to begin with then start tweaking from there.

 

Another option is to try different grips and improve recoil control perhaps.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Ludde

[PhotoRecon]

I believe forum member kneelingatlas tried the Sebo comp but it didn't seem to change anything if I remember correctly.

[Ludde]

 

More CZ open stuff.

After 49 days of waiting, my Robin Sebo Ti Czechmate comp showed up this week: my first impression: woah sparks!
 

     
 

    I've owned Ti comps before and never noticed sparks thrown out the ports, but I'm told it's par for the course.  It may be slightly flatter, but the harder hit in the hand combined with the noise and sparks results in a violent affair.  I still want to shoot it at speed and see how much of that I notice, but all in all its a quality product and an improvement over the factory steel comp.
 

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/265569-cz-open-build-theory/?do=findComment&comment=3184325

Edited August 27, 2022 by Ludde

[JRS1985]

@Ludde

 

thank you very much for your great contribution.
Even if the sebo compensator doesn't come across as brutal in the reviews, I'll give it a try.
I am also considering whether the small dot from my holosun 510c might contribute to the fact that I perceive the dot as wilder?

I think I will test the C more that came with the weapon again and see if it changes anything in the perceived perception.
Was very lucky to see the new czechmate which will be released in 2023.
Prototypes have been sent to various shooters and I can only say one thing... the wait will definitely be worth it and stir up the open division quite a bit.

I tried ordering a heavier hammerspring here in Germany and failed, seems to get a stronger hammer spring I have to order from Wolff in the US directly.. wat a shame.

When loading with 3N38 do you have a starting load with a 124 gr Alsa Bullet?

I know it has to be tailored to my weapon and Iam using a Chrono...

best wishes and thank you

[Ludde]

At your own risk: Alsa Pro 124grain RN, VV3N38: 7.9grain, OAL: 29.6mm

[regor]

10 hours ago, JRS1985 said:

Was very lucky to see the new czechmate which will be released in 2023.
Prototypes have been sent to various shooters and I can only say one thing... the wait will definitely be worth it and stir up the open division quite a bit.

 

You can't tease us like that! Is it basically just what Eric G has been shooting (slightly shorter comp, V2 popples in the compensator, double sided optic mount)? 

[JRS1985]

@regor

The slide has 2 Positions for diffrent Positions of the Slide Racker.

The Compensator looks very identical to the Sebo Comp but the Chambers are bigger and angled diffrent.

The gun hat cuts on both sides of the Slide with 3 of 4 popples on each side.(Could not see because light was bad)

It also has 2 or 3 popples on top going trough the Comp Cone.

The Safety looks diffrent.

Opticmount was one sided and an absolute prototype because the Shooter owning the gun prefered tube sized optics and mounted an aimpoint.

The one i saw was in a burnt bronze finish and black slide.

 

 

[regor]

6 minutes ago, JRS1985 said:

The one i saw was in a burnt bronze finish and black slide.

Did it still require taking the comp off to take the barrel out of the slide or did they modify it so it can come out the front? Any idea if the comp is steel or titanium? The weight balance of the Czechmate from the factory is its largest issue, IMO. Fixing the safety ergos would definitely make them more popular for a lot of people, though I don't personally have an issue with it. 

[JRS1985]

Comp still has to be taken off

[MNJoel]

Just curious if you got your dot bounce figured out? What OAL are you loading to?

 

I have a pretty good recipe for the Czechmate with Accurate No 7... PM me if you are interested. 

[zzt]

I'd listen to MNJoel.  A buddy was shooting his Czechmate and hated the recoil and dot bounce.  Be was loading CFE at the time at 1.150" OAL.  I gave him a couple of my rounds to shoot and he was impressed.  I sold him two one pound bottles to try.  He loved it.  He said it felt like cheating.  The powder?  Shooters World Major Pistol, the Czech equivalent of AA7.  In Europe you know it as Lovex D037.1.  Try some.

[Superkaratemonkeyfighter]

ZZT loads are very very nice. 
i never shot open , mostly limited but he let me shoot a mag through his open gun and I was double taps on a 6”plate at 15 yards like it was nothing , with fast splits. 
wicked fun. 

[Cowboy_Ninja]

On 1/3/2023 at 7:47 AM, MNJoel said:

Just curious if you got your dot bounce figured out? What OAL are you loading to?

 

I have a pretty good recipe for the Czechmate with Accurate No 7... PM me if you are interested. 

I’m interested in this recipe! Doing some load testing before the season kicks off!

[MNJoel]

On 1/5/2023 at 11:38 PM, Cowboy_Ninja said:

I’m interested in this recipe! Doing some load testing before the season kicks off!

Sent you a PM

[dogtired]

Any thoughts on brass grips or magwell to tame that?

[regor]

13 hours ago, dogtired said:

Any thoughts on brass grips or magwell to tame that?

In my experience (my video was posted by Ludde in a comment higher up) adding the brass grips and magwell to increase the weight help to smooth out some of the twitchy movements of the dot, but they don't have a major impact on magnitude. Popple holes had an impact on magnitude in my subjective view, but grip is still the most important factor by a massive margin. 

 

I settled on running the Sebo Titanium comp + two 3/16"popples + brass grips and magwell. That configuration is, in my opinion, the best you can get from the Czechmate with current aftermarket options -- after that you have to do the hard part and actually work on your grip.

 

I also switched to the IPSC Alex double sided optic mounts on both of my guns because I'd heard that can reduce some vibration, but I didn't do any side by testing between that and the CZC mount so I'm not sure if it made a substantial difference. 

 

 

[nikitasko]

On 1/10/2023 at 8:05 PM, regor said:

In my experience (my video was posted by Ludde in a comment higher up) adding the brass grips and magwell to increase the weight help to smooth out some of the twitchy movements of the dot, but they don't have a major impact on magnitude. Popple holes had an impact on magnitude in my subjective view, but grip is still the most important factor by a massive margin. 

 

I settled on running the Sebo Titanium comp + two 3/16"popples + brass grips and magwell. That configuration is, in my opinion, the best you can get from the Czechmate with current aftermarket options -- after that you have to do the hard part and actually work on your grip.

 

I also switched to the IPSC Alex double sided optic mounts on both of my guns because I'd heard that can reduce some vibration, but I didn't do any side by testing between that and the CZC mount so I'm not sure if it made a substantial difference. 

 

 

 

Hello,

 

do you believe that in a factory setup czechmate, the Sebo Titanium compensator will make the difference?

 

thank you

[regor]

1 hour ago, nikitasko said:

 

Hello,

 

do you believe that in a factory setup czechmate, the Sebo Titanium compensator will make the difference?

 

thank you

 

The Sebo Ti comp's main benefit is that it makes the gun much less front heavy. The compensation improvement over the factory compensator is minor. 

Both of my Ti comps required removing some material from the front of the slide to get the timing right.