Kynshot buffer comparison.

[ysrracer]

1 hour ago, XTCshooter said:

What's the purpose of the rear spacer at the bottom of the buffer tube? If the difference between an A5 and carbine tube is 0.75", what are you going for? 
I understand putting a spacer weight in front of the buffer to add weight to the system, just trying to learn the other side.

Thanks!

 

I asked the same question here

 

 

[ysrracer]

More info here

 

 

[Z-Chaos-Factor]

2 hours ago, XTCshooter said:

Ah OK, so using the A5 tube length allows you to use rear spacers to fine tune how much short stroke you want with more room than the carbine tube.

It is my understanding, generally speaking more weight in buffer is a "softer" shooting gun, but a short stroke is faster and less dot movement for faster double taps. So the latter tends to take the LRBHO out of the equation unless you get a JP ss bolt, etc.

 

I'm in the middle of a PCC build and trying to decide which route to go.

Thanks!

 

[Z-Chaos-Factor]

2 hours ago, XTCshooter said:

Ah OK, so using the A5 tube length allows you to use rear spacers to fine tune how much short stroke you want with more room than the carbine tube.

It is my understanding, generally speaking more weight in buffer is a "softer" shooting gun, but a short stroke is faster and less dot movement for faster double taps. So the latter tends to take the LRBHO out of the equation unless you get a JP ss bolt, etc.

 

I'm in the middle of a PCC build and trying to decide which route to go.

Thanks!

Yes having a longer tube allows your more flexibility in choosing to add longer springs, spacers or the most common one is adding the kynshot spacer weight. 

Adding weight will keep the bolt in battery longer and drop the pressure more making less pressure pushing back against more weight thus helping with reduced felt recoil. 

The downside is that adding to much weight can slow down the cycle speed of the gun. Also increased weight going backwards and hitting the end of the buffer tube makes more vibrations, before slinging all that weight forward and into battery causing additional movement with the sights. 

Short stroking can be used for two things. One it can increase spring pressure. But more importantly it will decrease the travel distance of the bolt increasing cycle speed. Increasing cycle speed means the dot returns to zero faster allowing you to see it sooner when transitioning from single target to target like a plate rack. But also when you shoot groups/ pairs having the  dot return to zero faster will decrease the size of your groups.

Despite what anyone says there is no answer for the best buffer/ spring and spacer setup. 

Its all relative to the shooter, the gun and ammo types. 

My advice would be to get the A5 buffer tube, the kynshot 5015hd buffer and the MBX short stroke spacers with a few different springs and try them out yourself. Go shoot the gun and watch how the dot moves and how it feels in recoil to you. Then shoot a grouping/ pairs as fast as you can pull the trigger with good recoil control and see how it looks. Is it bigger if you have the heavier spring or is smaller if you have a lighter spring and a spacer? Etc you get the idea. 

[ysrracer]

2 hours ago, Z-Chaos-Factor said:

Despite what anyone says there is no answer for the best buffer/ spring and spacer setup. 

Its all relative to the shooter, the gun and ammo types. 

 

Nah, baloney. The fast guys know the secret setup, they just won't share it with us

[XTCshooter]

So am I correct in assuming a shorter short stroke, say just enough to reset trigger would be most desireable for faster shooting? I am curious if a super short stroke with a little heavier overall buffer weight would be better than the lighter weight and short stroke?  Would it be better to have a longer buffer weight instead of rear "quarter" spacers, travel is the same, one adds weight to the system, the other compresses the recoil spring more.

I'm about to start experimenting and just thinking out loud. Thanks!

Edited January 26, 2023 by XTCshooter

[Ner]

2 hours ago, XTCshooter said:

So am I correct in assuming a shorter short stroke, say just enough to reset trigger would be most desireable for faster shooting? I am curious if a super short stroke with a little heavier overall buffer weight would be better than the lighter weight and short stroke?  Would it be better to have a longer buffer weight instead of rear "quarter" spacers, travel is the same, one adds weight to the system, the other compresses the recoil spring more.

I'm about to start experimenting and just thinking out loud. Thanks!

The shortest stroke that work 100% without malfunctions will give you fastest and flattest result 

[XTCshooter]

1 minute ago, Ner said:

The shortest stroke that work 100% without malfunctions will give you fastest and flattest result 

Thanks

What would the difference be if you got there with say a 1" weighted spacer in front of the buffer vs a 1" spacer behind the spring? 

[Ner]

14 minutes ago, XTCshooter said:

Thanks

What would the difference be if you got there with say a 1" weighted spacer in front of the buffer vs a 1" spacer behind the spring? 

I think that making buffer overall weight heavier is a wrong direction. I have tried SSS (super shortstroke) + heavy buffers but was not pleased coz i got a trigger malfunctions. MB at some point you will find the sweetest combo but it will take so much time and ammo that you will at some point stop seeing any differences in all your many combos variations. Dunno, test it. But keep in mind that overall system weight better not to exceed ~21oz 

 

*i have a heavy weight stuck at the back of my buffer tube lol. Can't get it out coz it's now melded to it. Be more carefull than me 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Ner

[ysrracer]

At some point you're chasing unicorn farts. Pick a direction, and go shoot it.

[dmshozer1]

2 hours ago, XTCshooter said:

Thanks

What would the difference be if you got there with say a 1" weighted spacer in front of the buffer vs a 1" spacer behind the spring? 

The weight in front will increase the buffer spring strength and add reciprocating weight movement.

The weight in back will only add to the buffer spring strength.

[XTCshooter]

9 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

At some point you're chasing unicorn farts. Pick a direction, and go shoot it.

Totally agree. I am just making sure I have an understanding of which unicorn fart flavor I am chasing. Not trying to reinvent the wheel, but learn from y'all's experience so I am making an informed decision.

[Z-Chaos-Factor]

My general philsophy is to use a moderate weight (21 oz's) a light weight flatwire spring and i spacers in the rear to control stroke length aka cycle speed. I use spacers that sit inside the buffer spring to avoid the extra preload and keep the spring lighter. 

 

My buddy prefers less weight and more spring tension. 

 

Its all relative. Theres an infinite amount of combinations. Just pick a start placing and change one variable at a time to see what you like. Dial in some combo eventually and just run it. Unicorn farts are hard to catch. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Z-Chaos-Factor]

5 hours ago, Ner said:

But keep in mind that overall system weight better not exceed 21oz's 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What makes you say that? Its basically impossible to over weight a 9mm direct blowback.

 

Or is that just your general rule for a competition setup?

[Ner]

16 hours ago, Z-Chaos-Factor said:

What makes you say that? Its basically impossible to over weight a 9mm direct blowback.

 

Or is that just your general rule for a competition setup?

Yes, my bad should have specified that's personal experience for a ~130pf. To overweight - no..make in clunky - yes/mb ..For a factory load it's just a "pick a latest gun on the market try it shortstroking mb add some fancy buffer and that's all..After you would spend hours and $$+ testing something there will be a newer fancy something that will overrull all what you have tested and "invented" by that time"  //imho

 

[zzt]

I have done a bit of experimenting with different buffer and spring setups.  I tried the Scheel roller delayed system and the second gen Taccom mag delayed buffer.  No go on either with factory 9mm 115 @1125fps.  To violent with lots of dot bounce.

 

I went to an A5 tube for LOP reasons.  My favored setup in my Leadstar Prime PCC is Blitzkrieg standard buffer, their 2.5 oz. short stroke slug in front of the buffer and either a JP super polished carbine spring or the 308 spring depending on the factory load.  Super soft with no dot bounce once you find the correct shouldering position and grip.  The problem (for me) is the slower return to battery.  Adding a 3/4" Delrin spacer in the bottom of the tube brings the whole setup back to carbine length and short strokes it.  A little harsher recoil, but still no dot bounce.  Enjoyable to shoot.  I can put a whole mag into a 2" group at 25 yards as fast as I can pull the trigger.  I'll also note I leave the 3 oz. bcg installed.

 

My thoughts on the new Taccom mag delayed buffer.  I wanted to try this out because I wanted to keep the bolt closed longer so the gun would stay cleaner.  It definitely helps in that regard.  The problem is you must remove the bcg weight to use this buffer.  The weight of the Taccom does not make up for this.  So you wit the rear of the tube, increasing felt recoil and dot bounce.  Tim suggested I remove the preload spacers.  No joy.  Then I tried replacing the flat wire spring with a JP carbine.  No joy.

 

I think lower PF loads can be made to work with the Taccom for steel challenge.  I haven't had time to experiment with reloads because of the holidays, and I had to quarantine when my wife caught Covid.  I should be able to resume testing next week.  I'll keep the Blitzkrieg system for use when I shoot falling steel.  There is no way the Taccom will work with the 147gr 144 PF loads I use for falling steel, at least not in my light rifle.